Episode 253 — Empower THEIR Voice
Guest: Kathy Somers • Date: April 29, 2025
Episode Overview
Kathleen Somers, author of Barely Visible, opens up about the real and raw experience of raising a son with Asperger’s. She shares insights on embracing your child’s uniqueness, moving beyond labels, and creating space for authentic self-expression.
About Kathy Somers
Kathleen Somers, a debut author, holds a Bachelor of Fine Arts from Temple University’s Tyler School of Art and works as a freelance graphic designer and copywriter. She is a passionate observer of humanity who believes in the power of connection that comes from each of us sharing our individual stories and the importance of authenticity when doing it. Having spent 24 years guiding her son through a disability most can’t see has not made her an authority on the topic. It’s having been the student to all that he has taught her that has brought her closer than anything ever will. When Kathleen isn’t busy with her career as a creative, she is out on her bike finding new roads to explore or spending time with her son, opening his eyes to everything the world has to offer, both big and small. She lives with her family in the suburbs of Philadelphia.
https://www.kathleensomers.com/
You’ll Discover
Kathy's Journey: From Diagnosis to Memoir (2:07)
The Unique Challenges of Asperger’s Syndrome (6:26)
The Pros and Cons of Labels (15:20)
The Downside of Too Much “Bubble Wrap” (27:07)
Why Apologies Aren’t Helpful (28:53)
Referenced in This Episode
Full Transcript
Len Arcuri (00:01.56)
Hello and welcome to Autism Parenting Secrets. It's Len. And with me today, my guest, Kathy Summers, is going to dive into a discussion with me on a super important topic. She's written a book that has just come out and she'll talk more about that. But the secret for this week is for us as parents to empower their voice, referring to our child. So,
empower their voice, three simple words, but a very powerful concept. And I'm delighted that Kathy is here with me today. Welcome, Kathy.
Kathleen Somers (00:36.828)
Thanks, Lynn. I appreciate you having me here today.
Len Arcuri (00:40.006)
My pleasure. I know you reached out. You basically have this book that just came out that I know you've been working on for quite a while. It must be important if you felt that it was worth your time, energy, and effort to create something for obviously other parents. I know you have a lot of insights and lessons learned from your experience as a mom, so I'll hand it off to you to talk more about your particular journey.
and why you decided to put it into a book that other parents can benefit from.
Kathleen Somers (01:14.322)
So in 2007, my son was approximately 6 and 1 I guess. And we had been seeing some signs that maybe there was something a little bit unusual about him. And we received a formal diagnosis of Asperger syndrome. At the time, there was not a whole lot of
help out there. There were resources available, but they were all very clinical. And there was, there were no books out there written by parents just saying it like it is. And essentially we buried our heads in the sand because nobody seemed to know anything about these two words, Asperger's syndrome. So we, we just decided, okay, well, whatever it is, it's going to go away. Well, as we all know, it doesn't just go away.
So over the years, started, you know, I searched, I searched and searched and searched, reached out to people. I wanted to know, like, what am I experiencing? Is this normal? You know, who can help me? And I started making notes and I don't know that I ever decided I'm going to write a book. I simply started taking notes kind of to see patterns develop in my son.
And eventually I realized that all those notes that I was accumulating, all these things that we were experiencing, all the frustration, all the aha moments, I was like, you know, this might be helpful to somebody at some point. So obviously it took me a very long time. If that was 2007, it took me almost 10 years to reach this point. And I thought, you know, after 10 years, is this, is what I've learned of value to anybody. But the truth of the matter is,
There are still very few books out there that are what I consider my book, which is a memoir. know, initially I thought, this could be a parenting book with helpful hints and best practices, but I'm not that parent. I'm not the champion parent that rolled up their sleeves and did all the right things. I simply didn't. And I recognize that there's still value in sharing the other side of the story, all the pulling out of your hair, all the mistakes made.
Kathleen Somers (03:35.762)
all of the raw, honest, authentic moments that go into raising a child on the spectrum. I put my head down and said, I'm going to do this. And I came out with this book. And honestly, is 100%. It's 100 % truth. It's 100 % authentic.
And I hope people don't think bad things about me after reading it.
Len Arcuri (04:06.798)
Well, hey, all you can do is put out what you believe is true, what you believe is helpful. And obviously, you know, every parent, including myself, can read it and digest it and take from it, you know, what they choose to. But the way you just teed it up, you you're speaking my language in the sense of like, you know, how to learn from others in terms of how you can.
in your own way, you know, respond to whatever's happening for your child. Now you mentioned Asperger's, which I know used to be considered part of the spectrum. I don't think it is anymore. I think it's kind of viewed separately, but whatever, you know, I think I'd love for you to talk more about, you know, the specific challenges that you face because whether it's Asperger's, whether it's autism, whether it's something, some variation, uh, you know, all the different permutations on the spectrum, um, whatever that diagnosis is.
The challenges that parents often face are very similar, whatever that condition is that they're trying to help their child with. So talk, if you could just, the higher level, what did you find most challenging as you were trying to help your son? And by the way, and he was diagnosed with Asperger's, I'm guessing quite young, so you had this diagnosis. What was the most challenging part of helping him?
with his diagnosis of Asperger.
Kathleen Somers (05:34.866)
Well, that's an excellent question. You just made a point about the challenges being similar. So let me backtrack for a second. used to be called, high functioning autism used to be called Asperger syndrome. And in 2013, Asperger syndrome was rolled into autism spectrum disorder for a variety of reasons.
So today in today's vernacular, it would be high functioning autism. And the challenges I'm sure are very similar. We have friends who have a nonverbal autistic son and there are definite similarities between him and my son, but the challenges are also much different. So on the surface, my son looks like every other young adult out there.
He just recently received a college degree. He drives a car. He just started his first post-education job. But his manner of processing the world is significantly different than the way you or I process the world. So the biggest challenge that we faced was, and this was at every age of development, in grade school, in middle school, high school,
with sports teams especially because he was very immersed in sports. On the surface, he looks like every other child. When do you say something? When he doesn't respond in that manner that you would expect, you know, a coach takes a look at him. he looks like, you know, every other kid on the team, but he's not responding in the same manner. So where is that line? When do you say something to the coach? The minute you do,
they're looking at your child differently and potentially negatively. But if you don't, minute your child does exhibit that behavior that is not typical, then there's a question, well, what's wrong with this kid? So I think that was our number one, the biggest struggle that we encountered was needing to walk that fine line and needing to know when to say something or when not to say something. And that
Kathleen Somers (07:58.98)
should not be. He should be my son and every other every other person out there should be able to say to the world this is who I am and this is this might happen because of it.
Len Arcuri (08:15.086)
Right. Right. So basically for somebody to be their authentic self without having to pretend to be something else. And so with Asperger's, so let's just take one maybe, you know, kind of hallmark trait of Asperger's. with Asperger's might...
Kathleen Somers (08:24.274)
Correct.
Len Arcuri (08:35.842)
be much more direct and say what's on their mind without worrying about sugarcoating it or kind of saying things the right way or in a more subtle way. So that's a trait that's generally from my understanding what people with Asperger's may have. Was that something that your son had where he was be much, much brutally honest perhaps or direct?
Kathleen Somers (08:59.058)
Absolutely. an easier to understand, not easier to understand, but another more disruptive trait is I could be standing out in the yard talking across the fence to the next door neighbor or standing in the supermarket talking to somebody. And if he's done, if he's with me and he's ready to go, he won't hesitate to just interrupt without
excuse me, and it's not that he's not disciplined or not, it's not that he doesn't understand, you know, how to be polite. He's ready to go. He will just flat out interrupt, can we go, mom? Without, and in his mind, that's reality. I'm ready to go. You should be ready to go. You shouldn't be standing here talking to the neighbor. So,
Len Arcuri (09:54.2)
Right.
Kathleen Somers (09:56.124)
But yes, I've seen him tell his best friend, his very best friend in the world, your shoes are stupid. Something that teenage boys should never say to one another, or maybe they do all the time.
Len Arcuri (10:13.23)
Right. Now, that's easy to digest. And again, I'll just preface that for parents who are listening, we're going deep into this into Cathy's specific situation with Asperger's with her son as an example. Now, you might be with your child dealing with much more severe things that are happening or much more.
challenging things and and so you might be listening thinking well politeness is the Last thing I'm worried about for my child because there's all these other Challenges that they have and I guess what I want to plant in your mind as we continue this conversation is that Whether it's the politeness and the directness or whether it's something else. It still comes down to as a parent You know, it's easy for us to get triggered by what our child's doing
especially when it's in front of other people and we're worried about judgment. this concept of just, you know, looking at your child and shifting from you wanting them to be what you want as opposed to really kind of embracing them as they are. And as we talk about the title of this discussion, to empower their voice.
as opposed to kind of superimposing what you want on them. So the idea of meeting your child where they are and having that acceptance doesn't mean that you don't want to help them change things. And your son's example may be for him to be more socially sensitive to what he says. There's still an opportunity to learn, but it's that internal feeling we feel as parents of really embracing them as they are. So that's my way of kind of characterizing
some of what you've shared. Push back or agree or tell me what you think of what I just said, Kathy.
Kathleen Somers (12:05.04)
No, I totally agree. One of the hallmarks of my relationship with my son is every year we take a trip, just the two of us together. in my memory, every trip has been absolutely wonderful. But in reality, every trip has been incredibly difficult because he's got limitations. Either our destination is too hot or too cold or the sun's too strong, the wind's blown too hard.
I recognized on the very last trip that we took, instead of anticipating that his limitations, his disability, whatever you want to call it, instead of hoping or expecting that it will be left behind at home and we're going to go and have this great, wonderful adventure, I realized if I had just invited his disability to come along with us,
the whole trip would have been so much easier, so much better, so much more enjoyable. It's taking the time to understand your child and allowing them the room to be the person that they are. You know, it's like my husband leaves every cabinet door in the house open and I walk around closing them because, well, he just doesn't know how to close a door. Why can't I treat, you know, why can't
Any parent who has a child on the spectrum that has these behaviors that oftentimes are difficult, what does it take for us to say, okay, it's just the way that they are and it is okay.
Len Arcuri (13:48.046)
Yeah, I'd say over and over to myself, you know, that again, everything my son has done is doing, he's doing for a reason, right? There's a reason that's important to him. When you were sharing just a few minutes ago, you used about, you talked about bringing the disability with him, right? Can we focus on that? Because I know many parents would be hearing that and nodding in agreement. Others would be saying, hey, I don't use that term disabled. That doesn't...
resonate with me. I don't feel like my child's disabled and I personally have never thought that about my son, although clearly there were capabilities I wanted them to have, skills I wanted them to have. But when you look back now and you think about your son, you feel like even now that he has disabilities that it's just part of him or is that term something that you no longer use?
Kathleen Somers (14:44.806)
have a problem with words in general. We need to use some words and you know the words Asperger syndrome, they went away and yet there's still a need for some term to describe the varying degrees of the autism spectrum.
So do I see my son as disabled? Absolutely not. I see him as the most wonderful person in my life. He's my best friend, you know. I understand that he has limitations, but so do I. And, you know, half of those limitations may be because the apple didn't fall far from this tree. know? So I'm glad that you caught me that I used that word. But no, I don't see him as being disabled. It's just...
In today's world, there are labels, there are terms, and someone that's high functioning autistic is considered to have a disability.
Len Arcuri (15:47.81)
Yeah, no, so I appreciate what you just shared and yes, that's a term that is used by others. So again, it's not like we can't use the word in the right context, but I share your view, your worldview. I, again, I, I considered my son the same. I've never considered him disabled. Don't consider him that at all. He's very different, but, and then also my best friend. like, know, so yes, I think there's a lot of commonality there. but
The terms are used, that are out there do matter in the sense that these labels, from my perspective, they create a lot of friction, a lot of what I would characterize as unnecessary suffering. And so there is power in words and labels. And a lot of times the labels aren't helpful. Sometimes they
are actually really misleading or, or, or, you know, kind of, untruthful. Like, so for example, Asperger's, I'm going to just test this out with you. I think Asperger's means, you know, I don't even think autism spectrum. feel like, okay, that's somebody who just has a little bit quirky and you hear Bill Gates and all the people who are technically have Asperger's and like that. So I have this label that says, okay, well, that's not a big problem. Autism's.
Autism is a much bigger problem, which again, I know that's ridiculous and that autism spectrum disorder and Asperger's both come with absolute real challenges. They're different, perhaps, but they're no less real. So like, again, I can look at it and have a certain meaning that I put with that word. But that meaning again may not be accurate and it may not be helpful in any way.
Kathleen Somers (17:37.136)
Yeah, I mean, I think the whole need for labels is a problem. mean, my son would rather tell the world I have Asperger's syndrome than tell the world I'm autistic. And unfortunately now, to use the words Asperger's syndrome, get there are quite a few people out there in the world.
Len Arcuri (17:54.935)
Mm-hmm.
Kathleen Somers (18:03.844)
lots of them that are highly opposed to use of those words. So how do we change that? That is, you know, I think part of the reason I wrote this book was to create this awareness that my son is no different than you or I. He just, he's got, he has limitations or he has not even limitations, he's just different than you or I.
So why does there have to be this label associated with it? How do we get people to accept everybody just for who they are? And my biggest regret is not better educating him when he was younger about his differences or his uniqueness. So that at this age, at the age of 24, he would be able to say to that potential employer, hey, I just want to let you know,
I can do this, I can do that, I can't do this or that because, and if I should happen to do this, I apologize in advance, that kind of thing. Instead of needing to question, should I tell them that I have Asperger's syndrome and will they get mad if I use those words? Because I don't want to tell them that I'm autistic.
Len Arcuri (19:21.484)
Right, right. But he's more comfortable with Asperger's but not that term autistic again. And there's power in those terms and they are quite different. And I think what you're bringing up though is something I struggle with as well where I feel like there's a balance in this space to strike because I don't necessarily...
Kathleen Somers (19:23.526)
It's.
Kathleen Somers (19:30.146)
Exactly.
Len Arcuri (19:47.16)
you know, this is my, what my desires are. And I can check in with my son about what his desires are, but my desire is, he was taking a course that was helping with social skills and recently and being in a workplace setting or being in a college setting and how to do things. And I know some of the guidance they were giving is that you, you go to the teacher or you go to the prospective employer and you declare that you have autism or that you're on the spectrum. You make sure that they know.
Kathleen Somers (19:52.434)
you
Len Arcuri (20:16.406)
And as I was listening to that, I was like, okay, well, I don't know if I would lead with that. And that's not something that, and I've never considered autism to be something that defined my son. So I wouldn't suggest to him that he, you know, share it like as the first thing that he does. But, you know, in relationship with a teacher or a prospective employer for him to own his strengths and his limitations and Hey, and if he wants to use a label, like, you know, I have ADHD or autism or something that's
nothing wrong with that, but that I've been very sensitive to making sure that I never defined him by the label. I don't have my son's 18 now. And I think it was about two years ago was the first time he even heard the term autism. Cause we never like I made it. It wasn't like I was hiding it from him, but I was like, Hey, listen, you are different. You think differently. got great superpowers here, but there's huge opportunities for you to improve. So I just never.
Kathleen Somers (21:02.235)
Wow.
Kathleen Somers (21:13.746)
Mm-hmm.
Len Arcuri (21:15.534)
use the term and there's probably some of my own issues with the term, how much I didn't like the term and didn't therefore want him to. So I think when I look back, maybe I would have done it differently where I would have introduced that term earlier. didn't have to wait so long, but I do feel very good about the fact that I didn't use it to define him as an excuse for how he was or in any way
having him be distracted by that term. I did feel like would be a distraction from him to want to sincerely engage and socialize more. And again, I just wanted to free up the space for him to grow as much as possible. And I thought overly using that term might actually hold him back.
Kathleen Somers (22:06.436)
Absolutely. And we never used that term either. It wasn't until, you know, I guess middle school or no, in elementary school, you know, when we established an IEP and, know, obviously he's struggling in classes for a variety of reasons. And then use of a term was useful because it got him the accommodations he needed in order to learn as best he could in
you know, the school setting. When he got to college, that term was still useful because he still, you know, even in a class where you might be able to sit wherever you want, if you walk in late and all the seats are in the front row are taken and the only seat is in the back row, then obviously that's going to impact him. So the label, we never used the label. It attached itself to him.
in order to get the accommodations he needed when he needed them. And then suddenly, I think it became pronounced, it became an issue, it became this challenge that we needed to overcome when he reached the point where, okay, I'm done college, I'm going out into the working world, now what? And I talked with several therapists about it, independent of my son.
And I was like, they should absolutely or he should absolutely tell a potential employer. He needs to put that on the table. And several of them said to me, but why, why does he need to do that? If he puts that on the table, then he's admitting fault for something he hasn't even done. And I loved hearing those words. He's admitting fault for something he hasn't done. And that is the truth. He hasn't done anything wrong.
So publishing this book at this time of his life is all the better. It's all the more important because now life is real. I can't protect him anymore. I can't be the bubble wrap.
Len Arcuri (24:16.462)
Right. Right. Well, let's talk about the book. So the book is called Barely Visible. Right. It's being released a couple of weeks. Right now we're recording this in March, but it's being released in early April 2025. So you've written this book. It's going to be out there. Out curiosity, has he read it?
Kathleen Somers (24:23.634)
Correct.
Kathleen Somers (24:37.934)
No. And he doesn't want any part of reading it. He knows all the stories. He's lived it. You know, and it's funny because I've read it more times than I care to count. I don't ever want to read it again. I often question was, you know, writing this book, I spent a lot of time living in the past because I needed to
Len Arcuri (24:48.344)
Yeah, absolutely.
Kathleen Somers (25:06.31)
recall certain events, I needed to figure out, when did this happen? When did that happen? And how was I feeling then? And what else was going on in our world to impact the whole scenario? And so I oftentimes have thought, did all that time I spent writing and living in the past, was that harmful in terms of raising him when who he is in the present is a completely different person than who he was as a child?
And then on the flip side, I hope that having delved deeply back into his childhood, that maybe it aided my perspective on who he is now and who he's becoming as an independent adult.
Len Arcuri (25:50.136)
Sure, sure. digging into the past or projecting into the future could be useful. If you're doing it in excess and taking away from the present moment, that was definitely a lesson I learned for sure. And I'm guessing in your book, if you were to bottom line for parents, right? Okay, there's lots of lessons learned. There's a lot that people can probably relate to your specific story with your son. But in terms of
What is it they can do more of? My guess is being present more in the present moment, accepting your child as they are now instead of who you want them to be or having regret for what may have happened in the past. My guess is presence is a key takeaway for you. What would you add to that? And what else would you say is a real key thing for parents to do more of?
Kathleen Somers (26:46.642)
think as best as you can as a parent, you need to allow those really uncomfortable moments to happen. I think you need to allow your child to figure out in that moment what went wrong and why they're suffering consequences because of it, as opposed to constantly stepping in. You know, I joke about the bubble wrap and it's not just bubble wrap protecting him from the world.
Len Arcuri (26:46.766)
Thank
Kathleen Somers (27:15.686)
but it's the bubble wrap protecting the world from him. And if I could have given him the independence to suffer those consequences and learn that his behavior, whether he understands what he's learning, but just learning that that particular behavior or this particular behavior will result in something negative, I think he would have been.
far better prepared as he reached those high school years and college years.
Len Arcuri (27:49.848)
So the way I'm hearing that is to allow our child to suffer the consequences or to feel the consequences of what life will most assuredly throw at them as they reach teenage years, adulthood. And so often as parents, we're extremely protective, perhaps overly so, trying to protect our child from the world. And yes, as you said,
to protect the world from our child being disruptive or whatever the case may be. And in all that, there's also us trying to protect ourselves, right? Keep ourselves safe from discomfort.
Kathleen Somers (28:32.036)
Absolutely, it's, you I have stopped apologizing. I have stopped being embarrassed because those feelings don't serve any purpose or those, you know, my apologizing doesn't serve any purpose other than to get me out of an uncomfortable situation. That doesn't help my son to navigate the world because this world isn't gonna change. It's not gonna bend to suit him.
And the world doesn't bend to suit anybody. We all have to learn how to navigate one another day to day. And the only way we do that is by making mistakes.
Len Arcuri (29:14.102)
doubt. That is how that's the only way any of us ever learn. yeah, no, I think those words ring true for me. And while it may seem obvious, I think I know my operating style as a parent was, you know, particularly when your child's young, it's like to save them from all those things. But there gets to be a point when as parents for us to back off and to, you know, let our child grow and learn and again, they don't really
learn that much from what we tell them. It's what they experience. And to allow that, as you were saying, I think is a very important insight.
Kathleen Somers (29:44.869)
Absolutely.
Kathleen Somers (29:51.472)
Yeah, absolutely.
Len Arcuri (29:53.218)
Super. the title of this is empower their voice. the empower part of it is pretty straightforward. As a parent, we want to help lift our kids up and give them that intrinsic sense. instead of bestowing something to them, it's allowing them to kind of grow into their full potential. The there is that even though as parents were well intentioned, it really is about your child.
having their own personal voice and allowing that as opposed to superimposing. I know I was very tempted to superimpose my worldview and everything on my son, which it didn't take me too long to realize that was ridiculous, but that's how I was operating initially. So when you hear this term empower their voice, what else would you like to add to it to help parents better understand this concept?
Kathleen Somers (30:49.35)
That's a really, that's a good question. You know, we've talked about going to a potential employer and I keep using that scenario because that's the world that, you know, in my world, that's what we're doing. That's where we are. It's, don't, I think voice isn't just about being able to say, I have,
Len Arcuri (31:03.448)
where you are.
Kathleen Somers (31:16.112)
these behaviors or these limitations, however you want to call it. I think voice is also about understanding. So I think it's just now at 24 years of age that my son is coming to an understanding of how he operates, like what that truly means in the world at large.
It's not a matter of just being able to be vocal about it. It's about self-awareness. And I see it taking shape. I see him doing things and he steps back and he recognizes, whoops, that was very Asperger-ish. He has actually said those words. So to me...
being able for him to be able to recognize those things. And if we had been vocal about it from day one, he would already recognize those things about himself. my advice to any parent raising a child now that's eight, 10, 12 years of age is,
Get vocal, use your own voice, get vocal with them about who they are, how they operate, how it's different than most people and allow them to process that and accept it and embrace it really.
Len Arcuri (32:52.536)
Right. And that word different, right? There's a big difference between saying that to a child that you're different with it, not having a judgment attached to it, right? It's just like, Hey, you are different. Doesn't mean bad. Doesn't mean that you're less than, it also doesn't mean that you're more than. and, and so it's just like, Hey, you are unique. You have gifts. You have areas where.
You can improve your skills if that's, so it really is about meeting your child where they are. And again, not having some outcome that you want for them, that they have to be like neurotypical kids or that they have to be the way you want them to be. It's really about almost allowing them to be who they're meant to be. And in some ways, sometimes as parents, we could be super helpful and useful, but in other ways we can get out of the way and have...
Kathleen Somers (33:49.23)
Right, absolutely.
Len Arcuri (33:50.414)
and have our desires, check them at the door. And especially as the child gets older, as your son is, yeah, to truly empower their voice and let them chart their own course and own way of operating.
Kathleen Somers (34:03.514)
I had a moment with my son not too long ago. He has a very big opportunity coming up. He was invited to an international modeling competition. And the only way to get into this competition is by invitation. And I started explaining to him, you say you were to get some modeling jobs and.
You you were asked to be at a photo shoot and the lights are really hot and they bring in lunch and there's nothing that you would want to eat. You know, how will you respond in a situation like that? And he said to me, I realized that I'm going to have to learn how to bend. And I almost started crying. I was like, oh my, the words are getting through to you.
Len Arcuri (34:54.242)
That's beautiful. He's developing an innate sense of wanting to be flexible, which most adults haven't achieved. So that sounds like a phenomenal milestone.
Kathleen Somers (35:01.97)
That's alright.
Kathleen Somers (35:07.548)
But in some ways I'm so grateful for the fact that we've had so many of these struggles because it has created this focus on being the best person he can be. And I don't know that we would have had that without needing to look at every hurdle and every upset and push our way through it and learn those hard lessons. So in some ways I am
So super grateful for every moment of this journey.
Len Arcuri (35:42.094)
That's a beautiful thought and I share that where I am thankful for these challenges and there was a version of me long ago that would never have said that. I think it's just about progression and well I appreciate you having this conversation with me and also the fact that you you know put what you feel is useful and helpful for other parents I think we're all of us parents everyone listening I know we all have an innate desire on top of helping our child that we want to be
Kathleen Somers (35:50.791)
I feel ready.
Len Arcuri (36:10.392)
helpful to other parents, we want to pay it forward. So I applaud your own unique way of doing that. yeah, again, so that's in terms of your book, Barely Visible, Mothering a Son Through His Misunderstood Autism. And I encourage people to find that book, Kathleen Summers. And again, I really appreciate you, Kathy, having this conversation with me today.
Kathleen Somers (36:32.892)
Thank you, Lynn. I so appreciate you giving me the opportunity.
