Episode 247 — JOINING Is Your Way IN
Guest: Amanda Louison • Date: March 13, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode explores the power of true connection with Amanda Louison, a leader in The Son-Rise Program®, who helped our son Ry bond with others—a life-changing experience for our family. The secret this week is… JOINING Is Your Way IN
About Amanda Louison
Amanda Louison is the CEO & Senior Program Advisor at The Option Institute and the Autism Treatment Center of America. With over 15 years of experience in The Son-Rise Program®, she has dedicated her career to helping parents foster deeper connections with their children through love and acceptance. Originally drawn to the program through her own journey as a parent, Amanda became a Son-Rise Program® Child Facilitator and later a Senior Program Advisor, guiding families in applying the program’s principles. Now, as a leader in the organization, she continues to support both parents and staff in creating transformative experiences for children on the autism spectrum. Amanda’s passion for empowering families remains at the heart of her work, making her an invaluable advocate for parents navigating this journey.
You’ll Discover
How The Son-Rise Program Started (5:31)
The Difference Between WANT and NEED (13:39)
A Different Way To See Stimming (15:01)
What JOINING Looks Like (21:16)
Red and Green Lights To Notice (30:29)
A Mindset Shift To Make And A Mistake to Avoid (34:03)
Referenced in This Episode
The Autism Treatment Center of America, to Speak To A Program Advisor Call (413) 229-2100
Full Transcript
Amanda Louison [00:00:00]:
I've joined so, so many children in that way. And for me, those moments are such expressions of gratitude from our children who can't otherwise express how important it is for them to have the time to self regulate. And that's that piece of it. Joining our children in their world is the way in. It's the way that connection and trust is built. Want to truly be the best parent you can be and help your child thrive after their autism diagnosis? This podcast is for all in parents like you who know more is possible for your child.
Len Arcuri [00:00:41]:
With each episode, we reveal a secret that empowers you to be the parent your child needs now. Saving you time, energy and money and helping you focus on what truly matters most, your child.
Amanda Louison [00:00:53]:
I'm Cass.
Len Arcuri [00:00:53]:
And I'm Len.
Amanda Louison [00:00:55]:
Welcome to Autism Parenting Secrets.
Len Arcuri [00:01:09]:
Hello and welcome to Autism Parenting Secrets. It's Len. Today we're diving into a game changing approach that shifts everything for parents and a child with autism. The power of true connection. My guest, Amanda Lewison, is the CEO and senior program advisor and at the Option Institute and the Autism Treatment center of America. She's been immersed in the Sunrise program for over 16 years, working directly with families and children to foster deeper connections through love and acceptance. And this episode is especially meaningful to me because Amanda was personally part of my son Rai's journey. She was one of a few people who really helped him to want to form a bond with other people, something that was completely life changing for our family.
Len Arcuri [00:02:00]:
And through her experience as a facilitator, advisor and a leader in the Sunrise Program, Amanda has helped thousands of parents see their child through a new lens, one that opens the door to greater joy, connection and growth. The secret this week is joining is your way in. Welcome, Amanda.
Amanda Louison [00:02:22]:
Thank you, Len. Oh, my gosh. I listened to you talk about your journey with the Sunrise program and gosh, how many years ago was that? It's got to be 12 or 14, maybe longer now.
Len Arcuri [00:02:34]:
Yeah, probably about 14, 15 years, I think.
Amanda Louison [00:02:37]:
Yes. And so that was just in the beginning of my own journey with the Sunrise program and how I had started being so touched by the tools and techniques that we've learned that I've learned over the last 16 years and that you continue to use with your own family and your son. And so it was a beautiful journey. And thank you for bringing that up about your own child. Yes. I have been with the Autism Treatment center of America, home of the Sunrise program, for 16 years. And for me, I came here when I was 35 after working in a home for children with behavioral challenges for 13 years prior. And it was a very, very different modality of working with these children than it was when I came to the Sunrise program.
Amanda Louison [00:03:31]:
And the true, true difference, it continues and will always be about connection and prioritizing, joining a child in their world first. So that is how I started with the Sunrise program, Moving here from another therapy and modality that did not feel. Did not. I don't want to say it didn't feel right because I don't know that I acknowledged it at the time. But I knew that there was something different out there for me and for what my heart was telling me to do with children on the autism spectrum, more with special needs or challenges in general.
Len Arcuri [00:04:14]:
Got it? Yeah. So, no, I think that concept of joining absolutely may not be obvious to a lot of people. So I'm going to ask you to kind of go a little bit deeper on what you mean by that. And I do appreciate the fact that your experience was that you had a certain way that you were kind of trained and learned how to be with kids and something felt off about it. And it sounds like where you are now and what you've been doing for these last 16 years is something that is quite different. It is in some ways perhaps opposite as well, which is kind of a weird thing when you think of modalities and how to help kids, therapy or whatever term you want to use. You would think that there's kind of a standard way of doing that, but the differences in approaches can be stark and even diametrically opposed. So with that, but that kind of framework, what do you mean when you say joining and we're talking about how joining is your way in, talking to a parent, that this is something that is useful to understand and it's an incredible opportunity.
Amanda Louison [00:05:24]:
Yes. Well, I think before I dive into the concept of joining, it'll be important for our listeners to, if they are new to this, to understand what the Sunrise program is. So the Sunrise program was developed. I'm. I'm 52, so I am the same age as the first Sunrise program child. So it was designed and developed over 50 years ago. And the bear, Neal Kaufman and his wife, Samaria Light Kaufman. I'll call them bears in Samaria.
Amanda Louison [00:05:53]:
That's what they're called now. They learned that their own son Ron was autistic. And back then they didn't really use that name as much, but they knew that he wasn't talking. He IQ was that of 30 or below. He wasn't socializing. He was in his own World. Often, if not most of the time, he wouldn't respond to his name being called. It was very different than their first two children.
Amanda Louison [00:06:19]:
So they knew right away that something was peculiar. They never thought anything was wrong with him. They thought he was a peculiar, interesting, unique child. So they had brought him to all kinds of specialists who said, you know what? Focus on your other two children, and Ron will eventually be in an institution. Don't worry about, you know, he's going to be in this place, meaning in his own world, because that's where he was, in his own world for his lifetime. He would spend, no kidding, hours spinning plates, real porcelain plates. He was an expert at it. Nobody knew how he did it, but he would spend hours doing that.
Amanda Louison [00:06:57]:
And that was his own world. Right? He was in this universe that was very different. And other people, family, friends, doctors, professionals, thought the Kaufmans were doing him an injustice by allowing him to do these behaviors. And everyone wanted to pull him out of it. And so you've got to make him stop spinning these plates. You've got to make him try to interact. And the doctors themselves would say, you know what? Don't waste your time. Put them away.
Amanda Louison [00:07:28]:
They knew based on the work that they had done prior in their lives, they used something called the option process. But based on the work they've done on themselves prior in their lives, they decided to see their son as a gift. They didn't want to live in this hopeless universe. They saw him as a gift, and they said, you know what? Wherever he is, let's be with him where he is. I don't need my son to be different, to love him. I don't need my son to give me a hug, to look in my eyes, to talk to me. I want to connect with him. So instead of looking for the connection from their son, they decided to go into his world, his world of predictability and familiarity.
Amanda Louison [00:08:12]:
So they began to particularly. Smaria began to spin plates with him, and she was doing exactly as he was doing. Now, some people say that's copying or mirroring the child. It's so much deeper than that. It's not just copying or doing what the child does. There's an internal experience that you're transferring over to your child. That feeling of love, that feeling of respect. And so when they were doing this with Ron, their son, he began to respond to them in a loving way.
Amanda Louison [00:08:50]:
He would start to look at them. He would start to move closer to their world. So his. His red light was him spinning his plates, and they started. He started to give some green lights and come to that world. Now, mind you, they did not join their son to get a response. It started with showing that love and respect to him. They thought that he had to be doing it for a purpose, but I'll explain that later.
Amanda Louison [00:09:17]:
So as time went on, they did this more and more with Ron. And then they realized, wow, we are with him in his world. It's got to be for a reason. And he has certain motivations. Let's use those motivations to create more interaction. So they did it in a really loving, playful way. And long story short gets longer. Actually, there's all kinds of books.
Amanda Louison [00:09:43]:
But long story short, Ron moved. He emerged from his autism. The diagnosis was removed. He ended up going to what people would call a typical school. He went on to a private high school, graduated from Brown University with a degree in biomedical ethics. This approach was quickly learned from other people, even people close to the Kauffmans. And then Barry Neal Kaufman wrote a book called the Miracle Continues. It's an edited version that has other stories and that crossed worldwide, globally, and it sold millions of copies.
Amanda Louison [00:10:26]:
And then a screenwriter caught onto it, became a great movie. It was called A Miracle of Love. And so was Bird. The Sunrise program at the Autism Treatment center of America in 1983. And the message, there's many principles of the Sunrise program that we teach, but one of the core principles that you mentioned in the very beginning of this podcast, Len, was the principle of joining the child in their world first. And that's exactly what Samaria did. That's exactly what hundreds of thousands of parents have done to create that connection with their child, to help them move from basically their world to ours.
Len Arcuri [00:11:05]:
Great. So I think this concept of joining, I'm going to tease it again, because I think going deeper into this and maybe if you can be more expansive with kind of more how this plays out, what it looks like, and how parents can even do it. I'd like to go back and touch on a few things that you've already shared, because I think if a parent. For parents who's listening, I'm trying to put myself, you know, hearing about this for the first time. I think one of the early things you said is quite significant, that Bears and Samaria made a shift where they basically said that I don't need my son to be different. I mean, that alone, that is a hard bridge for parents to cross. Right. Because everything that they're seeing about their child who has some form of diagnosis puts them in a mindset where they want to help their child be someone different.
Len Arcuri [00:12:00]:
Right. So the idea of having that as a goal, Bears and Samaria saw that as much as that seems like it may make sense, letting go of that demand, if you will, that need. And I think that's the powerful word you use, the need for the child to be different. That first step, which can be done, I know took me a while, but it absolutely can be done. But before we even get to all the other things you talk about the parent needs, that's the opportunity for you listening. That's the. The shift that you can make. And if you can let go of that need, which basically translates to more acceptance, then the second thing that you talked about was the idea that the behaviors or whatever your child's doing, that there's kind of two steps in there, I think first, perhaps as a parent, to allow your child to do that instead of trying to redirect them.
Len Arcuri [00:13:00]:
And so there's basically saying, hey, this is what my child's doing, and I don't have to change it immediately. And then after you get to that bridge, if you will, then the opportunity is what we're going to talk about today, which is in addition to allowing your child to be who they are and to do what they're doing, which is they're doing it for a reason, then you can even kind of add gas to the fire, right, in terms of that connection by actually doing something called joining, which, as you were saying, isn't mimicking or copying, although it may seem like that, the difference being what you're feeling inside. Right.
Amanda Louison [00:13:37]:
So let's first go back to need versus want. So, and I think that's. That's the key. Wanting doesn't mean you don't go for the thing that you're looking for, Right? The need is when you become attached to the want. So I can want ice cream for dessert, and I don't have any at home, so I'm okay with it, right? But if I feel like I need it, I might get frustrated. I might yell and scream that somebody ate all the ice cream. And there's a particular mindset about that. That need is becoming attached to the outcome.
Amanda Louison [00:14:16]:
So let's be clear that Samaria and bears, they wanted for their son to be able to engage with his siblings. They wanted for him to be able to go to. So they kept that hope and that want alive. But as you said, it was the need for that that they let go of. I can love my son, I can honor my son and respect my son without any of that and I think, I don't just think, I know I'm going to say I know that Ron felt that from them. He felt that his parents no longer needed that. And so he was able also to let down his guard as so many other children have. So I wanted to read something about what a stimming behavior is and for all.
Amanda Louison [00:15:02]:
I'm believing most of your listeners based on the topic know what a stimming behavior is in a child with autism. It's flapping hands. It's anything that's repetitive and ritualistic. Flapping hands, rocking back and forth. But if you look it up, there's a simple two sentence about it. It says stimming is a way to release excess pent up energy and bring about a feeling of calm, comfort and awareness in the body and mind. This is sometimes called regulation. Stimming can also block out unpleasant, excuse me, sensations such as overwhelm or anxiety.
Amanda Louison [00:15:40]:
So it's a part of emotional regulation, coping regulation, sensory regulation and many therapies say don't allow your child to stimulate. Think about that for a second. We're being told to stop our children from doing the very thing that seems to be helping them and that's backwards. And that's what I realized when I was working with all these children for 13 years. We would give out consequences for a child who kept rocking. We'd say if you continue to rock, you can't go out on the trip today. And we knew that. I knew that was wrong.
Amanda Louison [00:16:20]:
And so when I found the Sunrise program and the concept is join the child in their world. Because these stimming, we call them an ism because they're unique to autism. We don't believe that it's self stimulating, we believe it's self soothing. So we learn to join. That's what the Sunrise program teaches. Join the child in their world first. We already know and we don't exactly. There's so many studies.
Amanda Louison [00:16:47]:
We could spend hours and hours talking about studies and what the autistic brain looks like. Now they're saying there's mitochondrial dysfunction, there's cortical density and things like that. What we do know for sure is that children with autism see, feel and hear the world very differently than you and I do. So you and I can have these conversations, you and me, Len. And there might be things happening around us, but we have the ability to really focus on what's happening. And they call it for children with autism the humming brain. Even when they're studying the brain, there's activity going on so they're constantly battling exterior stimulus. And so the best way that they know how to take care of themselves is to use some sort of self regulatory behavior.
Amanda Louison [00:17:38]:
They also have shown that children with autism have lower synapses in their brain. So while they're having humming in one area, they've spent so much time taking care of themselves in other areas of the brain that synapses hasn't happened in maybe the communication area of the brain or the social area. So they're in constant state of taking care of themselves and not even giving themselves enough time to settle and grow through. They're doing it expertly. And so why stop them from doing the very thing that they're doing to take care of themselves? So what we do, you and I, Len, we're in this sea of randomness. Like I said before, we're navigating our ship. We can go through the storm, we can get there. But on the other side of that is us being able to regulate with the mind that we have because we can decide what's important.
Amanda Louison [00:18:32]:
A child can't do that. So they have to step away from that sea of randomness. Picture this, you're in your boat in the sea of randomness and on a faraway island. Our children in that little world, on a faraway island. They're on this little island of predictability. They've created this place for themselves that feels safe, that feels familiar and feels in their control. What's different about that island is that they're alone now. Our children, they don't mind that, that we know of.
Amanda Louison [00:19:03]:
Right? They don't seem to be upset that they're spinning or flapping their hands alone. We, as the parent, the ones who want, or the caregiver or the teacher, the ones who want, we know that there are possibilities for our children to grow from that, to emerge from that island. So that's what we want for them. And so we go to them. We don't go to them with conditions. We go to them and we create a parallel universe and do exactly as they're doing. I hope this isn't too much too fast.
Len Arcuri [00:19:35]:
Well, it's familiar ground for me. So I'm hoping. Parent, if you're listening, it is a shift. It is kind of a very different approach and a different way of looking at what's going on with your child. But I would just echo what you said, Amanda. I mean, I know we violently agree on this, but, you know, I know for my son, nothing that he ever did, did he do randomly or to Piss me off. Like everything, everything was being done, as you said, he was regulating himself in the best way he knew how. So if that's true, then, then to have the objective of let's get rid of that behavior, as you said, makes no sense.
Len Arcuri [00:20:15]:
And again, a lot of approaches are premised on we need to modify and change the behavior. So it really comes down to that acceptance. And again, not accepting the behavior and checking out and saying, okay, well, there's nothing for me to do. No, of course, as you said, you have wants. You want more for your child and never kind of have lesser wants. You can want what you want for your child. It's just looking at that behavior through that different lens of, simply put, of acceptance then radically changes how you can respond in a much more powerful way to help your child.
Amanda Louison [00:20:58]:
And I think it would be great if I shared an example of what joining might look like. So I was working with a child. He was about 5 or 6 years old, and he was in the playroom. And really he had not wanted to look at your eyes. He was just not wanting any social interaction at all. And we believe in the Sunrise program, first of all, just. And hopefully our listeners will look it up. But it's a social relational challenge versus behavioral.
Amanda Louison [00:21:31]:
So our focus is on all the fundamentals of socialization. So he wasn't looking, he wasn't talking, he wasn't using gestures. And so he was really in his own world. So he was on his stomach and had his face in his hands. And so I got about 2 or 3ft away from him in our Sunrise program playroom, and I joined him. And what did that look like? I got on my belly and I put my face in my hands exactly as he did. And once in a while I checked on him because I wanted to make sure that if he was looking, I. I had an opportunity to celebrate that.
Amanda Louison [00:22:10]:
And that's a whole different set of tools and techniques. But I wanted to be there and acknowledge him looking or moving closer or doing anything that he was doing to show that he was interested in me as a person, making efforts in my direction. But I didn't need that. Remember, I didn't need that. I wanted that for him. But my thought was just to be with him. My. My priority was connecting with him.
Amanda Louison [00:22:36]:
I didn't need him to connect with me. So we were on the floor for about 15 minutes, and he started to look at me a little bit. And so I would pick up my head and I'd say, oh, I'm going to call him. Thomas. Oh, Thomas, I love when you're looking at me. And then he'd go back down, he'd put his hands, head in his hands. And then he looked at me a little bit longer and I said, I think this is the. I love being on my belly.
Amanda Louison [00:23:03]:
I love how it feels. And then he put his hands back, his head back in his hands. And it was about five minutes after that that he, not me, he then sat up and he got on his knees. And so I moved ever so slowly and he started to come closer to me. I said, thank you for coming closer. And I took my two little fingers, I put him on his knees and tickled him a little bit. And he came over. I was still on my belly with my head propped up.
Amanda Louison [00:23:35]:
As I was tickling his knee, he came over and he. This is the most special moment I ever had. He came over, he took his hands, he put them on my chin, he lifted up my face and he gave me a kiss on the cheek. And it was as if he was saying, you get it? You get it? Where, where have you been on my life, you know? And after that we had this beautiful interaction and he, he did it two or three more times during that session. He was not with me the entire session, but every time I joined, he delivered the end of that with this affectionate hug or kiss. And for me, and I've joined so, so many children in that way. And for me those moments are such expressions of gratitude from our children who can't otherwise express how important it is for them to have the time to self regulate. And that's that piece of it.
Amanda Louison [00:24:39]:
Joining our children in their world is the way in. It's the way that connection and trust is built. Built. I was giving a lecture about the Sunrise program up in Syracuse one time and there was an autistic man in the audience. So I opened it up for question answers at the end and he was talking about the concept of joining and creating. There's so much here but the playroom, which is a distraction free environment so that we can take away all the extra stimulus that is too much for the children. So he was talking about his mother had done that and she had this environment where he could just go and swing. And she didn't listen to anybody else telling her not to allow that.
Amanda Louison [00:25:24]:
So I asked him, I said, I love that your mother created what he was calling a stimming room. I said, how would you have felt if your mother had a swing next to you? And she was doing that right alongside of you. And he said that would have been cool. So he had the awareness of what that might have felt like to have someone with him unconditionally, just doing what he loved to do, to take care of his body. And that's, that's the power of joining. In that, that example, which I have so, so many more.
Len Arcuri [00:25:59]:
It's a beautiful example. And I have my own example I could share in terms of what, you know, my wife Cass and I experienced with Ry at the Option Institute as part of the Sunrise program. But honestly, as you describe it, though, it makes sense because we all love it when we run into people who like what we like. And so, again, I think what you shared earlier is so important. It's like, what's the objective? And I think what your organization has expertly been teaching people for decades is how to connect and how to engage as opposed to how do you change someone? Right? And then it's a wildly different objective. And so that's where this concept of joining is a very powerful concept that, again, as I really took the time to understand it, it just makes perfect sense. And there's many people who this does not make sense to and who would give all kind of warnings that you're going to reinforce behaviors and the like. All I can say is, I know for my son that n of one just for him, but with us joining him in his behaviors, nothing was ever reinforced or got worse.
Len Arcuri [00:27:18]:
It really was truly the key that unlocked the entry into his world, as you said. And unless you can step into their world, it's really hard for your child to want to follow your lead on anything else.
Amanda Louison [00:27:37]:
Well, and, I mean, we've said this before, but we use motivations to teach children all the time. Typical children, adults. You like basketball, you play basketball with a friend. You like hockey, you play hockey with a friend, you like to read books. Those are the things that you do. And we tend not to do that as much as as much with our children on the spectrum. I'll never forget, I was watching, a parent had asked me if I would please watch one of the videos of his son in a therapy session. And so the son was sitting there and he was doing great.
Amanda Louison [00:28:15]:
He was so beautiful and wonderful. And he was sitting there, and the therapist was showing flashcards and asking the child to say what the flashcards were. And so he started to tap his fingers on the table in an ismy stimming way. And she would put her hand over and quiet his hands and say, hold up the card and say, what's this? And she was not looking at him. She was kind of looking down while holding her hands. So the connection was not the priority. The task was the priority. So would hold up the card and say, what's this? He gave the answer and said, a cow.
Amanda Louison [00:28:53]:
You could see she ticked a mark and then he started to rock back and forth. And she asked, what's this? And he gave the answer, it's a cow. And she asked again, what's this? Now he's going back and forth and he's stimming more and more. And she says, he says, a cow. She did that three more times until at the end she said, now what's a cow say? And he said, moo. But by the end of that, he was so tightly. And one of the things in the Sunrise programs, we don't make assumptions, we just see the behavior. So he looked tight, he looked intense, and he had what we call meltdown or a tantrum of sorts.
Amanda Louison [00:29:42]:
And so I remember talking to the dad, I said, why? Why? When he gave the answer the first time, did that keep going? And how come he wasn't able to take care of himself? Well, nobody allows it. And so this person came through the sunrise program. We introduced the distraction free environment of the playroom so that he didn't have to be in the humming brain the whole time to be with people. We eliminated the distractions. So it was the. The person in the room was the most exciting. And then we taught him the concept of joining with his son. And it was a complete 180 turnaround for this child who hadn't been joined.
Amanda Louison [00:30:27]:
So again, it's about connection. And there's so many other tools and techniques that come after that. So it's joining, but really what it is, it's about acknowledging red lights and green lights. We all have red lights. I'm sure, Len, at the end of the day, maybe you're tired and you want to sit on the couch and read a book or, you know, I like to work out at times, and that's my time. And so if other people are trying to interrupt that, it can create a sense of anxiety. It's like, I just need this hour. I just need this time to myself to decompress in some sort of way.
Amanda Louison [00:31:08]:
And that's my red light. My red light is when I'm using the vacuum or driving and listening to a podcast, Lena Curry's podcast. But those are my red lights. And so we want to acknowledge our children's red lights, our children on the autism spectrum. And the stimming is that red light, it means not now. It's not go time. You can create that parallel universe, but I need this time for me. And our children will also show us what's called green lights.
Amanda Louison [00:31:44]:
That's when they're connecting with us as well. They're showing eye contact, they're maybe moving closer to us or touching us. And then there's a set of tools and techniques that we teach to move through that. But again, this is about acknowledging those red lights and joining our children in that world first. Yep.
Len Arcuri [00:32:04]:
No, that's. That's super clear to me. At least the concept of red lights and green lights. I mean, it's clear to me now. It wasn't clear to me early on. And again, in terms of if you want to get more of those green lights for your child to be more connected with you, again, if you're doing things that they love that are their. Their interest, your odds go way up of getting them. And that's where I think everything that we've talked about today, I think the uber perspective, is that the opportunity for you listening parents, is to think about it and approach it from your child's perspective, not your perspective in terms of.
Len Arcuri [00:32:40]:
It's not so much about what you want in that moment. It's from your child's perspective what's going to feel good from their standpoint in terms of being able to take care of themselves. So if they're giving a red light, having the space and not being forced, none of us like to be forced. And then so many other concepts that you've introduced. It comes down to. If you just look at it from your child's perspective, all this makes sense. And it really does ultimately come down to just acceptance of your child in terms of where they are now. It doesn't mean you're accepting some outcome.
Len Arcuri [00:33:16]:
Of course, have huge wants. But if you can accept your child as they are now and look at everything through their lens, I mean, so much in terms of what's going to help becomes clearer to you than it otherwise would have.
Amanda Louison [00:33:33]:
Yes. And one of the other things I would have to say is so much of this, it doesn't start without the parent looking at themselves first. This is the key factor. So it's not just about joining, but remember we talked about in the beginning of this podcast, that paradigm shift, not needing but wanting. And sometimes it's a little bit of an attitudinal check. Right. We put so much on our children, and maybe you're afraid of the judgments of others or, you know, does it make me a bad parent if I'm allowing my child to hum and do flapping behaviors. Someone told me not to do it.
Amanda Louison [00:34:20]:
What do I look like if I don't? Or if I allow this? So the sunrise program and the concept of joining, it's very simple. And it takes work. It really does. It takes some work, but it's such delightful work. You get to work on yourself. You get to be with your child in his or her most organic form, like being with them in the thing that they love to do. And I have this. Someone had given me a picture of a buffalo, right? And you know how buffalo have that thick coat and they can roam for miles and miles and miles and miles.
Amanda Louison [00:35:07]:
They always get to their destination, though. It takes effort and time, but they get to their destination. And sometimes they get to their destination a lot quicker than other animals. And they are one of the only animals in this world to go through a storm versus hiding from it. So some animals, they might hide from the storm and wait for it to pass versus walking through it. A buffalo, if you see pictures of them in a snowstorm, the fronts of their faces and their chests are covered in snow. And because they're not lying down waiting for it to pass, they're walking through it. And they're walking through it not with weakness, but with strength.
Amanda Louison [00:35:48]:
They're walking through it with the belief that they're going to get to the other side. And they do, and they end up passing through it much faster. And I mention this because that's the attitudinal shift. This is not overnight, but we're in it together. And if you go to it, you'll come out the other side of it. And that's the part of empowerment that we want to help parents with. We want to help them get there through the storm. And you know what, Actually, storms produce really wonderful things.
Amanda Louison [00:36:17]:
So you can even change your lens to see the storm as beautiful, and it's only going to make you stronger on the other side of it. So weathering the storm together, being with our children in the most loving, organic way is the heart of everything that we're talking about here today.
Len Arcuri [00:36:36]:
I love that. Yeah. And I have to say, I look at it now. That whole storm was a divine storm. It was a gift. And that would have been impossible for me to have seen earlier. And for anyone listening, if that's triggering, just know that that's possible. And again, from your personal perspective about what's happening, you know, with your child right now, a lot of what Amanda has shared.
Len Arcuri [00:37:02]:
These are kind of different concepts, but again, they're very, very powerful. And I know that buffalo analogy that you gave is so powerful because my inclination early on is I wanted who's the doctor that's going to fix this? Who's the therapist that's going to, you know, help my child with modifying those behaviors that other people, including myself, don't like? I kept looking for someone to solve it. And so that's where it's a powerful realization when you know as a parent that you are the key. And there's ways of approaching, you know, trying to help your child, which just absolutely lead to misery and burnout. And there's ways that actually lead you down a road where it may not be a quick fix, as you're saying, but it is the fastest path to what you most. What you most want for yourself and your child.
Amanda Louison [00:37:53]:
Right. And the shift that you can make in yourself, just being with your child in that way, it will transfer on into other areas of your life. Being able to change the way you view something so that it benefits everybody involved.
Len Arcuri [00:38:09]:
Wonderful. Well, I thoroughly enjoyed this. It's an important topic, the concept of joining there for you to listen to, to. To take in. Is there anything else that you would say in terms of if someone's listening, Amanda, and they're, like, intrigued by this and they're excited, what would you say in terms of. Especially with the thousands of parents that you run into, Parents may have good intention, but then they may make a mistake, they may move in the wrong direction. Just what have you seen? What advice would you give a parent in terms of how they can in some way put this into play for their own family?
Amanda Louison [00:38:47]:
Yeah. So sometimes people will try. I have fun listening to people in general. They'll say, well, I tried it. It didn't work. And it's not just with Sunrise program parents, it's with anything. Well, I tried it. It didn't work.
Amanda Louison [00:39:03]:
Again, it's about staying the course because you might not get a look the first time you join or the second or third or fourth, your child knows you're there. So it's really staying the course. And once you start using the Sunrise program, we have ways that we help you practice different ways of joining. If it's too much one way, and I couldn't possibly go into all of it here, but it's about staying the course and knowing that you will have support. We will walk you through it. But putting yourself in the place again of going into this, not needing anything from it, you're doing this to show your love and I think that makes the big difference.
Len Arcuri [00:39:53]:
Beautiful. Well, wonderful concept to end our conversation with. So thank you for the gift of your perspective. And for people who are intrigued, where should they go to find out more?
Amanda Louison [00:40:05]:
So you would want to Visit the website autismtreatment.org There is a form on there. It says request information. You can request a phone call and one of our program advisors, hey, it could be me, will give you a call and talk to you a little bit more about the Sunrise program. We also have a direct phone number you can call if you're out of the country. It's 1-413-229-2100 and ask to speak to a program advisor. And if you're really, really, truly interested, you can just get right online and order the Sonrise program online and it will give you these exact tools. There are so many more. Joining is just one of eight different principles of the Sunrise program.
Amanda Louison [00:40:49]:
So I would love to talk more about it at some point with all of you, but that's how you get in touch with us and move forward.
Len Arcuri [00:40:55]:
Fantastic. All right, well, all that will be in the show notes, but otherwise appreciate you sharing that information. And thanks again for this conversation.
Amanda Louison [00:41:03]:
Yes, and thank you, Len, for doing all that you're doing to share information with thousands, thousands of listeners around the world.
Len Arcuri [00:41:11]:
Your child wants you to transform now and the fastest way to do that is with personalized support. To learn more, go to all inParent Coaches coaching.com intensive.
