Episode 329 — More Testing Is NOT Always Better
Guest: Greer McGuinness • Date: October 15, 2026
Episode Overview
More testing doesn't necessarily mean more answers. Greer McGuinness knows this firsthand. In this conversation, she shares why even extensive lab testing can miss foundational issues, how parents can avoid getting caught in cycles of testing and supplements, and why understanding what to address first can make all the difference.
About Greer McGuinness
Greer McGuinness, MS, RD, is a registered dietitian with nearly 20 years of experience in nutrition and pediatric health and the founder of Biomedical Healing for Kids, a virtual practice specializing in autism, microbiome health, nutrition, and environmental health. She is also a Certified Detox Specialist, Certified Master Herbalist, and Certified Lyme Specialist. Greer is the lead author of published research on sulforaphane treatment for autism and has contributed to a textbook on the neurobiology of autism spectrum disorders. Her professional work is informed by her personal experience navigating complex health challenges with her son.
https://www.biomedicalhealingforkids.com/
You’ll Discover
Why More Testing Can Actually Create More Confusion (2:07)
Why Foundations Need To Come Before Aggressive Protocols (9:36)
Why Greer Doesn't Consider An OAT An Essential First Test (12:41)
Why Interpreting The Test May Matter As Much As Choosing It (16:43)
The Question To Ask Before Ordering Another Test (42:19)
Referenced In This Episode
Full Transcript
Greer McGuinness 0:00
Did we do a stool test yet? And did we work on the diet and nutrition? And usually the answer is no. And what people don't realize is that sometimes there's one test that we try to focus on, or one or two tests that we try to focus on first because they influence all the other tests. So of course all those other things are going to be off because the one big piece is off. So once we start working on the one big piece, then we can branch off and do a like those other tests that could be super helpful too. But a neurotransmitter test that's showing us what's going on in the brain, a lot of it's made in the gut. So if the gut is imbalanced, nutrition is off, and we have nutritional deficiencies, we're going to have neurotransmitter imbalance. So I can't just go and fix a neurotransmitter. I have to keep going backwards. If
Len Arcuri 0:46
you're a parent of a child with autism, you are being called to rise with love, courage, and clarity. This journey isn't easy, and most parents aren't equipped, but you can be. This podcast is your invitation to rise higher, because how you navigate matters. I'm Len, and this is Autism Parenting Secrets, where you become the parent your child needs now. Hello, and welcome to Autism Parenting Secrets. My guest today is Greer McGinnis, a registered dietitian with nearly 20 years of experience in nutrition and pediatric health. In addition to her master's degree, she's also a certified detox specialist, certified master herbalist, and certified Lyme specialist. She's also the lead author of published autism research, and has contributed to a textbook on the neurobiology of autism. She's the founder of Biomedical Healing for Kids, where she specializes in autism, the microbiome, nutrition, and environmental health. Greer's work is also deeply personal. Her own journey with her son led her to dig much deeper into nutrition, gut health, testing, and the many factors that can influence a child's health. Today, we're going to talk about how parents can be more strategic about testing, what it can and can't tell us, and how to use what we learn to make better decisions. The secret this week is more testing is not always better. Welcome, Greer.
Greer McGuinness 2:19
Hi. Thanks for having me.
Len Arcuri 2:21
Well, delightful to see you. I know we spent some time at the Maps Conference a few weeks ago. You'll be at the upcoming Documenting Hope Conference in November, and I'll see you there. And I know with what you particularly do and how you support families, let's just start with families who are coming to see you, and many of them very well may already have lots of test results and lots of information, and also lots of confusion about what's going on with their child. Just what do you generally see that parents struggle with most, and and where do you think that, especially when it comes to testing, that they can go wrong with maybe going down a path of testing that ultimately may not really be that helpful.
Greer McGuinness 3:07
Yeah, so I see this often, and I was one of those parents too. You know, we all started somewhere, and you know, I was trained in how to read conventional labs. That was part of my, you know, degree, and so I kept running all these conventional labs on my son and couldn't figure out why everything kept coming back normal, and nothing made sense to me. Okay, so I had a son who had regression; he had severe constipation. He was barely eating any foods, wasn't sleeping, you know, and his labs just kept coming back normal, maybe a little bit low vitamin D, and I kept going. This, this, this can't be normal. This is this. There's something I'm missing. So what I did was, you know, when I started researching other functional labs and other labs that were out there, I started doing everything. And I thought that the more information that I had, the more I was going to better understand my son. But what I didn't quite understand was a lot of these other labs also ultimately go back to a starting point. So when I have parents that come to me with all these different types of labs, they're sometimes missing the main one or the one piece that kind of you know impacts the rest of them, so you know they'll come to me with genetic testing, or and or an organic acids neurotransmitter, heavy metal, and I'm like, these are great. This is great information. Did we do a stool test yet? And did we work on the diet and nutrition? And usually the answer is no. And what people don't realize is that sometimes there's one test that we try to focus on, or one or two tests that we try to focus on first, because they influence all the other tests. So of course, all those other things are going to be off because the one big piece is off. So once we start working on the one big piece, then we can branch off and do. Like those other tests that could be super helpful too, but a neurotransmitter test that's showing us what's going on in the brain, a lot of it's made in the gut. So if the gut is imbalanced, nutrition is off, and we have nutritional deficiencies, we're going to have neurotransmitter imbalance. So I can't just go and fix a neurotransmitter. I have to keep going backwards. So I kind of call it like a reverse snowball. So the the the snowball down here is your child, and there's these are all the symptoms that are going on inside your child. But I have to work backwards and have that starting point, so that I can kind of follow the direction of why everything started going wrong and to creating that one big problem.
Len Arcuri 5:39
Yeah, no, that makes sense, and a lot of it does come back to the simple concept of more awareness of what's happening with your child now. And and as you were pointing out, there's there's foundational things that need to be in place, and having the awareness of where that is is much more important and critical before perhaps focusing in other areas that you know parents might be hearing about, and again, you showed up with huge energy. I know my wife Cass and I showed up with huge energy. A lot of parents do, and it's easy just to do as much testing as possible, and and more data is great. It's just that oftentimes, yes, if it's not focused on the right things, and things that I would put in that category of foundational elements that really need to be in place. Then again, it may be premature. It may just may not be the right time to do that testing, and that testing just may not be really meaningful right now. And I know a lot of this points to when we talk about the foundation, I think is more the center of what you do, which is one of the most fundamental things to focus on is gut health, and if that is not in place, right, it's kind of like Monopoly. You cannot pass go to these other things that you might want to do until you really understand what's going on, and and maybe get having some lab results that show what's going on to better inform. Okay, here are some options or some possibilities. You know what you can do to influence and improve gut health, which ultimately will improve and have a direct impact on neurological health.
Greer McGuinness 7:20
I always say the gut is the engine to the car, so just like your your automobile, if your engine isn't working, the rest of the car isn't working, the radio's not working, the windows aren't rolling up and down, you can't put it in reverse, you can't go anywhere. So if you're looking at the system as a whole, the body is a human system, and we all function systemically a specific way. But for our kids with autism, this is where the research comes in. We know biochemically they're just so different, and a lot of it stems from the gut first, and then we have all these branch off of oxidative stress, low glutathione, nutrient deficiencies, mitochondrial dysfunction, cell danger response issues, and all these things. But and it's great to understand and know that. And I'm that parent that kept going down all those rabbit holes because I was looking and chasing those supplements. Oh, my son has mitochondrial dysfunction. I need to put him on this supplement. And then once I put him on this supplement, he started head ticking. And I was like, well, wait, but why didn't that supplement help? It's because well, he's not utilizing the supplement the way he's supposed to because his gut isn't working. So it's this round robin game, and you're trying to just put things in a chronological order, and that's what I'm very good at is looking at big picture. So when I do get families with all these labs, including stool tests and oats tests and everything, what I'm trying to focus on is those patterns and say, okay, well, we have all this great information, and I'll explain what this means to you. But I'm not going to treat or use anything off this lab because I need to focus on this first. And the likeliness is that if we run rerun this test, it's going to be completely different after we fix this thing. So sometimes it's trying to. I think as a parent, we're always trying to do so much, and and we're looking for the next best thing. And and I and I'm that person too. But sometimes we do need to take that step back and say, okay, let's focus on foundations first, even if it's for a couple months before trying to go and do other things because we just don't want to do things that is not in the chronological order of the human body.
Len Arcuri 9:24
No, it makes logical sense. It doesn't mean as parents that we don't want to move fast on a number of fronts, but but to really get focused on foundational issues and really to lay that foundation first as a macro step is is just it's easy to skip that and and to overlook that. But what another way of really boiling down, I think what you're sharing is is kind of the way the language I put it in is this still is ultimately a game of channeling your time, energy, and money and focusing on the right. Causes at the right time, and and this will always be the strategy, regardless of how your child's progressing and as they get older. So I I think and correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're suggesting is that oftentimes the right root causes to focus on early on are more related to the gut, and unless you you would do that work early on. Focusing elsewhere just may not be as effective as you're hoping, or may actually be a waste of time, unless you got those fundamental building blocks in place. Is that is that fair to say?
Greer McGuinness 10:33
So yeah, I have a lot of families that will come to me after they, you know, see a practitioner, and the first thing that they do is start like a kill phase or a detox phase on something, and their kids just have a really bad negative reaction. And part of it is because the functional medicine plan or protocol that we have is really based on adults and not children. So everything that we learned in functional medicine, so I was Western medicine trained, so I had to learn everything in functional medicine because it's a completely different space. Totally, and so understanding the plan of how to work functionally with kids, there weren't really anything kid related. They were all adult focused, you know, education material. So when I started applying that to kids, I realized real quick that I was having so much more negative pushback and negative reactions from my pediatric patients, and I had to stop. And at the time, I was working for a functional lab company, and I decided I took and like I think a couple weeks, and I, for whatever reason, the way my brain works is I worked backwards, and then I worked forwards again, and I realized that our kids, we can't use the same planned protocol we do for an adult for a kid because they physically don't have the system and the body chemistry set up the way an adult would. So, if we worked with them in a different light and just worked on foundations and building up their system first, a lot of my kiddos don't herks or react negatively when we get to the that detox, you know, brain mitochondrial phase versus the kids that they try to do that right off the bat. They try to detox right off the bat. They try to do mitochondrial support right off the bat, and then all of a sudden these kids start. You know, parents are like, you know, they they stop because the kids start having a negative reaction. So it's sometimes working with the child again. It's working with the body and not against the body, and you can't detox or work on a brain that's not absorbing, that's not digesting, that doesn't have the neurotransmitters, that doesn't have the pathways supported. The genetics are not support like nothing is being really supported, so we can't kind of make the body and force the body to do something if it's not completely ready to do it yet, and then those are when those negative reactions, or what we call Hercs reactions, occur.
Len Arcuri 13:05
Got it. And so the testing that you might do early on to to get a read on what's happening, right? It's it's basically pretty straightforward labs, right? You're looking at basic blood labs, a CMP perhaps, a good stool test, perhaps, or maybe a urine test, but but like some basic labs that give you an idea of what's happening, and it's not like you have to rush and do an extensive battery. So, like when people come to you, what what do you think are the essentials? Like, is an o an essential test from your standpoint?
Greer McGuinness 13:38
No, and I know I'm going to get a lot of no. But that's a fair answer. I use and and and let me explain why. So I used to run the Oates test a lot, and when I worked for a functional lab company, I've had the privilege, and again, I call this a privilege because I've had the privilege of talking to 1000s of practitioners and also looking at 1000s of tests. Literally every week, I would look at hundreds of tests, and what I started noticing again is those patterns. That if I ran an oats and a stool test, and I only focused on the stool test, I didn't focus. I didn't. I just had the oats just for reference of just picking up little things, but I only started working on the the stool test first, and then we would rerun the oats test six months down the line, and more than 80% was fixed. But I didn't even touch anything on the oats test. I just touched the gut because the gut, again, is the engine to the car. The an oats test is kind of think of it like a the we're testing the smoke coming out of the smokestack of of a of a you know of a industrial company. So I'm testing the smoke that's coming out, and just kind of getting. It's not telling me what's actually being built in the factory. I'm just kind of looking at the byproducts of what's coming out. But the stool test is what's telling me what's actually going on in the factory. So it's it's a metabolite test. So there are things that. You could miss that things that might have been converted weird, you know. Think, you know, just whatever. So to me, I don't run an oats test as as the first thing. I will maybe run that later on down the road, or you know, maybe never. It depends. But I definitely do a stool test first, and then I do have my families do labs with their pediatricians that we can get covered by insurance, and you know I'm also looking for specific things. So I am running a CMP, BMP, but I'm also running like lipids and thyroid, cholesterol, carnitine, and certain nutrients that I know might really be deficient in that particular child. Sometimes we have to rule out some infections and things like that, so I can definitely use a pediatrician to you know get those done, so it's covered by insurance, just to kind of get a an idea if I need to go in a different direction or you know pinpoint certain things. But yeah, so sometimes I'm just going to do usually like a stool, maybe a toxin test, depending on the location of the person, heavy metals, mold, environmental toxins. Because depending on where a person lives, that might be a really big key piece. That you know, I just had a patient the other day. You know, when we first started talking, I asked, I just said, "Oh, do you have? Have you ever had water damage in your apartment? And they said, "Oh, we did, but they came in and they just painted over it and told me that it was fine, and I was like, "Oh gosh. So I'm like, "Okay, I think we need to do a mold test, you know, and just you know rule that out. And you know, and she's like, "Oh, and it came back out through the paint. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, you know. So, you know, so it's things like that. Sometimes it's just asking those questions to understand that that child, their environment, what's going on and what could be impacting? Because environmental toxins impact the gut too a lot, especially mold, because it suppresses our immune system. So there are certain things that we we do need to combine together, and it just really depends on that child.
Len Arcuri 16:53
Got it, got it. But overall, though, when it comes to like an initial test that you feel like is really worth really looking at focusing on. It's now, but in the stool testing world, there's a variety of options, right? So, you know, my son's 19. Early on, like when we did like a Genova type test, was the the CDSA, the the comprehensive digestive stool analysis. That at the time was like the the cutting edge stool test. Now you have you know much more advanced testing. You have you know 16 S shotgun, like a whole variety of of tests out there. So what would you just say for someone who's just trying to understand the landscape in the world of stool testing? Well, can you paint that landscape a bit? Yeah.
Greer McGuinness 17:39
So stool testing has evolved an extensive amount, and I think that's why I have also left the oats test behind along. Because again, when I first started this over 10 years ago too with my son, an oats test was like the gold thing. I mean that we didn't really have stool testing, and if we did, it was very like it wasn't very good. So the oats was like your bread and butter, and now stool testing has evolved so much; it's gotten so good. I think so. Stool the stool tests that are on the market. I think they all have their positives and drawbacks. I mean, there there's some tests for this, some don't test for this. You know, my personal favorite is a GI map. I love the GI map. It gives me everything I need, depending on. And the reason why I like that test so much is because I could take a kid at any age. I could take a one-month-old to an 80-year-old, and I can use that test and know where these markers are supposed to fall, depending on the age of that child. Certain things should be elevated at certain times and drop at certain times, depending on a pediatric patient. Certain things are going to be overgrown or undergrown, and it gives me a really good balance. I've used the other tests. I've used Gutzoomer. I've used Genova. I've used a lot of different testing too. And I don't think that they're bad tests either. I think they're very helpful. Sometimes though, what I want to say and is that it's not always the test. It's the person interpreting the test, and that's and it's an art. And that's what I you know as a clinical lab educator, I had to teach practitioners the art of interpreting the testing and how your patient symptoms and the the test results and how they kind of mesh together and what we're looking for. And it's an art, and it takes a lot of time, patience, and skill to learn that art.
Len Arcuri 19:16
And can we talk a little bit about that art? Not that you're going to reveal. I'm not going to ask you to reveal what you've learned over 20 years, but but you you can have a test right that comes back with with results that are within normal ranges, and that can still be problematic, right? And and same thing, you know, and the opposite is also true. So just being able to look at the labs and really just not take what the what the report is saying. Hey, this is an outlier. There there may be some analysis that's needed to really get the complete picture, and even depending on where you run your test, right? The the ranges of what's normal, what's not, could be wildly you know inaccurate or misleading. So if you did run a stool test, let's say. Through LabCorp or Quest, you know, because it's covered. Oftentimes, the reference ranges are so wide that everything is normal, right?
Greer McGuinness 20:09
Yeah, it's it's they have very wide reference ranges, and they they're testing for some really just basic things. And and and again, I've used them because they could be super helpful too. Sometimes if we have to rule some things out, you know, kid on a test has you know really high calprotectin. Maybe they had tons of inflammation. Maybe they had E. coli or something, a pathogen that really impacted and caused the gut to inflame. And we need them to go see a GI. You know, we can use those things to as tools just to kind of help rule some things out and rule some things in. But it's no different than if you're like even like a vitamin D blood work. You know the range is like 30 to 80, and you could be a 31. Well, you're within normal limits, but you're on the lower end of normal, and that's not good because you're at the lower end, which is almost deficient. So your body is only going to be running on fumes, and that's very similar to stool testing and reference ranges because we want an abundance of certain microbial species in the gut, or you should have certain microbial species who they are established to help, and they help produce neurotransmitters, or help with absorption, or help with detox. So if these microbial species are on the low end, well, that's a problem. But if they're also on the high end, that could also be a problem because now they're crowding out some of the other beneficial bacteria or pathogen microbial species that we want there, but they're overgrowing because the pH is off or digestion is off, and you know, so there's a lot of nuance with it, and a lot of the tests don't have pediatric reference ranges, and that's one of the hardest things when explaining this to providers because you know other a lot of the tests you have to look at and say, and I already know, and again, it's just from years of memorization, but like I know, a kid, you know, at you know maybe nine months, their acromenia should start to be really flourishing and almost to a high amount. But you know, if I get a test and a nine month old and it's low, well, or you know, that's a problem. But again, every the testing is hard because again, if we had reference ranges, it would make life easier for a lot of practitioners. But it's really just trying to hone in on certain things that we make sure that we're understanding where they should be at that point in time when their age.
Len Arcuri 22:34
Got it. Let let let's go down the root cause rabbit hole for a second. So, given the focus of what we're talking about, where gut health, particularly, is so critically important to have that in a better place. If how would you characterize, like, what are the top root causes? Very specific root causes you see that are usually apparent with a child with respect to the gut. So, off the top of my head, I know dysbiosis, right, is the imbalance between good bacteria, bad bacteria, yeast. So you can identify the root cause being that your child has dysbiosis in the gut. You could also have identified leaky gut, right? That basically because of that, you know, particles are getting into the bloodstream that don't belong there that explains my son's crazy allergies, so so like the the concept of leaky gut as a root cause. So when you're thinking about the gut, what are the top offenders? Like what are the top root causes that you see are relevant? And of course, it's going to differ from from person to person.
Greer McGuinness 23:39
Yeah, but I understand what you're. I mean, one of the biggest things that I see antibiotics damages the gut significantly, and and one of my questions that I ask a lot of patients too is like, has your child ever had antibiotics in the first three years of their life? And pretty much 90% of the time, yes. In as early as before a year old. So if we have a gut that's supposed to be developing a certain way, we have a lot of influences. So, a sickness or an illness, unfortunately, COVID has been a big top piece of really damaging the gut microbiome. The flu or any type of GI bug can damage the gut microbiome. Usually, I'm going to see pathogens, so E. coli. See, you know, H. pylori parasites, things like that, start really just wreaking havoc on the gut, and it starts trickling down because once you have something like H. pylori or digestive insufficiency, you have alteration in pH, and then pH is one of the things that helps certain microbial species flourish and keep certain ones at bay. So, if you have an alteration in pH in the gut, all of a sudden you start having this crazy imbalance. Like, for instance, Candida. Everyone loves to talk about Candida and autism so much. One of the biggest things is Candida can actually change its. Formation depending if the pH is too high or too low, but in more of a neutral pH, it doesn't grow as much. So that's what we're looking for. So a lot of the times when I'm looking at kids who have tons of candida issues, they have tons of pH issues too. So sometimes it's again that working backwards and starting from the top, and usually I start with the mouth. Your mouth, you have mouth bacteria and everything, and that starts the trickle down effect of everything. So everything you eat and everything that's in your mouth and the bacteria in your mouth starts the whole entire system and could completely disrupt the microbiome from from the start. Yep,
Len Arcuri 25:35
no, that makes sense, and and I think all that, and that's why it's so individualized. How you characterize the root cause for a particular child, right? Is is going to be very nuanced, and and so the top offenders that you mentioned are all worth looking at and considering. Is that relevant for my child? In addition to what you started with earlier, where where yes, toxicity could be a piece of it, whether it's metals or mold, so that may not show up in a stool test as much as you would run a separate test to see if how much of an influence might that be in in the overall impaired gut health.
Greer McGuinness 26:10
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, like toxin. I love toxin testing. It's one of my favorite things to do too. And because you know everyone kind of, I think people leave that out a lot of the times, not realizing that you could keep feeding, fixing the gut all day long. I've I've had people do a whole year of gut repair over and over and over again, and then their guts just revert back. But they didn't know that the water that they're consuming had tons of arsenic in it, or the food that they're consuming had tons of metals, or they live in a moldy environment, you know, and so I guess most people don't realize that those things that are going into your system have to go through a specific part of your system, which is your gut too. So those that our bodies are really, really designed to handle toxins. That is their job is to handle toxins, but if it's working effectively, and what's happening though with our kids is their bodies aren't working effectively, so then that's why they have those issues that they're having in the first place, and so it's just again a vicious cycle of this is why a lot of kids can't get better or aren't seeing the results that they want after working so hard, and the parents are working so hard to do the diets, to do the supplements, but they leave out one big key part that we need to sometimes fix first.
Len Arcuri 27:28
That's right. Yeah, and it's it's the leaky boat analogy, right? If if if your boat has a hole in it, again, no matter all the other good stuff you're doing, you're still going to be sinking over time. So so that you know, kind of establishing a solid foundation, addressing that first is all about having, you know, a boat that's not leaky, right? That that's set up for to enable the body to do what it's naturally able to do. So again, that's why there is a the sequencing here really is everything. And and I guess this would probably be a good time. Probably should have started with this, but can you do a little bit about your backstory with your son in terms of you know how you got into the space and how particularly you got to where you know what the specific work that you're doing now?
Greer McGuinness 28:11
Yeah, so my son regressed when he was about 1819, months, and I it was like a you know slap in the face to us too. Like he wasn't born with autism. He, you know, there was no red flags. We didn't miss anything, and his regression really set us into like a catapult world of autism. And I, you know, wanted to be that autism mom. I did all the things. I did all the therapies. I went to everything, and you know, every practitioner that we saw kept saying, "Oh, as long as you put him in all the therapies. He'll speak. He'll be okay. And when he was about four, he still wasn't speaking. He had like a few words. Would sometimes use them, not always functionally, or you know, like ready, set, go. You know, you'd be he'd be like go, you know. And it was just like, oh my gosh, it was like snail pace for like two years, I was just like, "This is just, you know. I was feeling really defeated as a mom, and I happened to have a nurse friend who said, "You know, you know, have you seen these Facebook groups? Like these these moms are doing these crazy things in in these these Facebook groups? And I was like, "You know, what are you talking about? So I joined a couple Facebook groups, and these moms were sharing like the oats test and stuff like that. And I think like the frat tests and stuff had come out shortly after that. And I was like, what is all of this? And then I started, you know, Dr. Wooler, you know, had a lot of presentations. I started watching his stuff like religiously, just because he was like the autism guru at the time, and he was one of the most outspoken people online. And I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is amazing! So I started ordering tests, and I found a local doctor who didn't treat autism specifically, but he knew about functional tests. And I reached out, and I was like, "You know, please, I'm desperate. I just need some guidance. I just need a little help to. I'll figure this out." My own because I normally do, but I just need a little help. And he did, and he and I'm forever grateful for for him and everyone who supported me, trying to just help me at that time. And I started doing the testing on my son, and then I started researching, trying to figure out what supplements to do. And I I kind of told my husband what I was doing, and within six weeks, on a protocol that I created, my son sat down and wrote his ABCs for the first time at four and a half. And I remember my husband looked at me. He was like, "What did you do? I'm like, "I have no idea. It's no idea what I just did. And at the time, I started going back to school to get my master's, and I spoke to one of my master's professors, and because you know what I didn't realize it, which was funny, and I spoke about this on another podcast. The podcast was on my undergrad, we didn't really talk about being functional. It was kind of like a little taboo, but we got some you know some information. But then in my master's degree, all my all my professors who are PhD were all functional. Like one actually works for a very well-known functional supplement company as one of their researchers for the the formulations. And when I spoke to them, they were like, "Oh, here, let me show you this world. And it basically opened Pandora's box for me. And I was like, "Oh my gosh! And so I started running labs, and then I would help other parents who were trying to run labs but couldn't because they couldn't find a licensed provider. And I didn't realize that I could run the labs. And I was like, "Oh, this is great! No, so parents just were like, "Can you order this test for me? Can you order this test for me? And then I started consulting with the the clinicians on the team for the the the labs, and then one of them reached out and said, "Hey, we want to hire you for pediatrics. Do you want to?
Greer McGuinness 31:45
Do you want a job? I said, "Absolutely. I was like, "This is my dream come true, and I left working in healthcare, and I went started working in functional labs, and I never looked back because that was the greatest thing that I have ever done in my entire life. I I felt so incredible, like it it was like learning life all over again, and I just-I guess it was just the way I understood things was a different perspective than so many other people, and the way that I was able to formulate things, like providers just loved it because I was able to explain it to them, so it made sense, so that they, because trying to explain these things to parents is like really tough. I mean, this thing like you're trying to explain biochemistry, organic acids to a parent, and they're looking at you like, "What are you talking about? What do you mean oxalates? Like, what is this? You know, so it's hard. And so I was able to learn how to break these down and explain them in digestible pieces to make it make sense, but then understand the big picture of the child, and that's you know the labs are why I got into doing what I'm doing.
Len Arcuri 32:46
Yep, no, it's a it's a very unique skill to be able to take the complexity and to be able to convey. I mean, I've been at way too many conferences where this is being presented, and all the people in the audience have these blank looks about them. Right as it get as it gets too deep in terms of the chemistry,
Greer McGuinness 33:03
that was med maps. That was med maps a couple weeks ago. Yeah, I remember I was sitting in one of the lectures, and again, the lectures were fabulous. I was eating them up like candy. But I remember I was looking around, and a lot of people were like trying to scramble to write notes, and I was like, "Oh my gosh, can you? I'm like, "These poor people. It's like 7o'clock in the morning, and people are trying to understand tests, and it's tough. But it's it's really rewarding and fulfilling, and it makes it just. I think as a parent, when you knew something was wrong with your kid for so long, but all the labs just kept coming back negative, and the practitioners just kept telling you this is autism, this is autism, and when you finally run the labs and you get abnormal labs back, you're like, oh God, thank God! Like I knew it makes you feel like you're not crazy, and that you knew something was wrong, but you couldn't put your finger on it. It's it's that piece that just makes a parent go, God, I just knew in my soul that something was wrong, and everyone made it seem like it was in my head, but I knew it wasn't.
Len Arcuri 33:59
No, I can I can relate to that for sure, and and going back to the parents, you know, who are at this conference, right, being overwhelmed. I think it'd be useful. Let's talk about this journey and what what I always call the organization chart, right? In terms of everything you've shared, right? In terms of helping to make this digestible for parents, the key is that the parent still, whether we like it or not, right? We are the decision makers at the top of the org chart, and we and the key is for us to assemble the right team, the the right team of advisors. So going back to where you, I think you have a very unique lane that you play. So if you if you can try to just characterize, like I know you have you're pretty uniquely equipped based on your experience, but if you're trying to help a parent understand, if you're navigating this journey, yes, it's really powerful to get a a practitioner, a medical doctor, perhaps a maths practitioner on board because your local pediatrician. Is probably not going to cut it in terms of having much for you. So, so the way I always like to characterize it is like you need an org chart, and you need to have advisors who have the right expertise. So, while a really good medical pediatrician, integrative pediatrician, or functional pediatrician could bring a lot to the table and could be an essential part of the team. They may not necessarily have the expertise in every area, particularly when it comes to the gut. So that's where I see you as having someone who's not necessarily a medical doctor, but having very very deep expertise with respect to biomedical and how you can help parents understand that landscape, and to advise them. So, can you just expand a little bit in terms of your lane, what you do, what you don't do, to help parents understand that?
Greer McGuinness 35:52
Yeah, it was interesting. I was having a conversation with somebody at MedMaps, and they were a maps practitioner, and they said, you know, they love what I do, and they said, listen, I love what you do. I wish more parents would see you first before coming to see me. And the reason why they said that is because when you go to a maps practitioner who may be an MD, a DO, or someone who's you know a little bit higher up on the food chain than me, I guess I want to say they're wanting the real medical complex kiddos, and they're working at a higher level than what I am. I can't order, I can't prescribe, so I'm a little limited in that area. And there are times where I've had to refer patients to a specific MedMaps provider because I don't have I don't have the skill to be IVIG antibiotics for pandas you know I don't have that experience or that a capability to work with those children in that particular area but I can work with kiddos and get their guts to a certain degree I can get the toxins out of their system I can support their brain, and if then there's something else that is needed, or something else that you know might need a higher level of experience, that is where those types of practitioners are amazing at, because their level is just there. They want those medically complex kiddos. Essentially, it would have been one of my kid, my kiddo. You know, you know, so you know what I'm helping parents is let's just get you started before you know spending a lot of money because you know they they're it's not covered by insurance, you know, and sometimes we just need that little bit of foundational work first to get things started and also to help the parent understand and focus. So I've had parents come to me and going down different rabbit holes, thinking their kids have pans and pandas. I'm like, your kid does not have pans or pandas. Like that is like a whole other section of what we don't even need. But your kid has mold, so let's go over here. And now the parents like, oh, I just wasted three months of research. So I'm gonna help parents start off with some basic tests, get foundations moving, start trying to figure out the rabbit holes that they're supposed to go down based on what their child's needs are, and then help them plan out the next year or so of what they want to do. I just met with a family today. We've been working together for over a year, and they've gotten to the point where I said to them, "You have done everything with me that I can can give you. Now it's time for you to fly and take you to another step. Maybe you need to go and look into Trudos. Maybe you need to go look into stem cells. Maybe you know. And her kid has made astronomical, you know, progress. But he's only in kindergarten. He's a little guy still. He still needs to grow. He still needs to develop. There's still so much that he has to do, but we're gonna plan out the next couple months. And Mom's gonna research, and I have a ton of free guides. So if anyone's listening, I have tons of free guides of all these different types of interventions. But maybe she's gonna go do Malillo. Maybe she'll think about stem cells, and that's okay. That's why those things are there because sometimes I can only bring somebody to a certain point, and then somebody else has to then you know like a baton and take the baton off and then carry on the rest of the way. And that's how we build that team and support our families throughout the process.
Len Arcuri 39:14
Yeah, perfect. Yeah, no, I think it illustrates perfectly this concept that you know on your team and you get to choose who you hire and who you fire and who gets to be on your team by having the right advisor with the right focus and and again there's room for several advisors but you don't necessarily need to have dozens right it's about having it's kind of like with the testing you need testing but but fewer the right test is better than having too many but to really choose your guides wisely, and especially, I know for me, I would want to have a maps type practitioner. Even though early on we really didn't in our son's journey, but I would want to have that person on the team. But I know now that okay, it was unreasonable for me to expect that one maps type pract. Practitioner to be an expert in everything, right? So, so that's where it's okay to have them on the team, know where they fit in, how you can use them. Just like it's okay to have a conventional pediatrician who's close by if you need somebody that you don't have quick access to. But, but the key is having the right advisors, and many of these maps type practitioners have really long waiting lists, so rather than waiting to be able to see them, there's a lot that you can do now. And again, where I think where you come into play is with the general focus on gut health being so critically important, so obviously important to make sure you have right. You know, there's a lot that you can do with the right guidance to to channel your energy on what's going to help your child the most, and um and again, many parents because of social media, because of peer pressure, whatever, it's easy for us to be influenced by whatever is the latest, right? So you know, nine months ago, everyone's flocking to get Luke of Orin because you you hear about it, right? And then Pan's Pandas is popping up in every conversation, and again, that's great to become aware of. But ultimately, it comes down to what evidence do you have of what's going on with your child, and to focus your your time, energy, and money on those true foundational root causes. And the earlier you can do that, the better.
Greer McGuinness 41:18
Right. I mean, and that's exactly. I mean, you know, meeting a lot of the maps practitioners and and other doctors who aren't maps who still go to maps maps conferences who just don't have the title, which is great too. But they all have their different areas of expertise, and no different than when you go to a ENT, a GI. You know, we're we're all very specific. I'm more of GI and toxins. That's my area of expertise, and I love what I do, but if you come to me with pots, I might go. I don't know, you know, like I don't really got that one, you know. And and that's just you know, it's a niched field of of you know what we all do, and it's all different. But I help parents kind of navigate like what they really need, and then we find if you need more, we'll figure that out together.
Len Arcuri 41:59
Perfect. Yeah, and then again, for people who listen to this podcast, this is all under that banner of what to do for your child, right? And the key is getting the right advisors to help you discern that. Greer plays a very specific len in that, and other, you know, integrative or functional or maps type providers can also be a key piece of helping you to figure out what to do. And again, everything this podcast is about, and my advisory is really about the parent and how they're navigating and kind of coordinating all this, because that's another essential piece of how do you navigate this journey really well. So, so again, I think ultimately it comes down to you, the parent, just stepping into an even more capable parent who can navigate this journey powerfully, and again, having the right advisors is really, really important. So, Greer, appreciate you sharing, you know how you support parents. I think it's phenomenal, and I guess I'll leave you with a final question of just asking you to really just bottom line this. If if a parent remembers just one thing from this conversation before they order another test for their child, what would it be?
Greer McGuinness 43:04
Take a step back, breathe, and let's focus on what we have and where we're at, and before we move another step forward, because we can keep moving forward, but let's just make sure that we know where we are first before taking another step back because we could just keep going in a circle, and we don't want to keep going in circles.
Len Arcuri 43:25
Yep. No, I think that's a that's a powerful reminder. I always I always like to ask the question: If these results come back and they're abnormal, will you do something with this? Like, will you take action? Because a lot of times, I know I ordered tests, got the results, and didn't really do anything, and that's just burning money. So, like, that's where if you just be selective. Okay, I'm going to take this. I'm going to consider what comes in, and I'm I'm I'm willing to take actions to address what comes out of it is also kind of a useful useful question, just to kick the tires before you invest that amount of money in the testing,
Greer McGuinness 44:01
and I always I'm the first one to say I don't want parents wasting money. I don't. That's the last thing I want. I've told parents that you need to save your money and go do this first. You've done. I had a parent come to me with they've been doing tests for the past two years, like over and over again. I'm like you need to stop and you need to go do this instead because this you you've done everything you could here, but you need to start focusing here. You're you're just going around in circles, and that's okay too. We just we just have to make sure that we're matching what what's going on with that patient, and that's what I think is really important, especially as a practitioner. Is there are times you have to be honest with your patient and say there is we have to stop this part and do and you need to go out away from me and do something else, and that's great. I you know I always tell my families we're going to be best friends, but there's going to be a point in time where you don't need me anymore, and that's okay with me. I'm okay with it. I promise.
Len Arcuri 44:51
All right, that's great. Well, Greer, thank you so much for for joining and sharing sharing your wisdom for parents who are listening. Yes, the. Resources that Greer mentioned, the the free guides, all that I'll put that in the show notes. Anything else you'd like the parents to know in terms of how to find you?
Greer McGuinness 45:07
Everything is biomedical healing for kids. So my website, my Instagram, I have a private Facebook group and I have a public Facebook page. So if you need me, you can contact me anytime.
Len Arcuri 45:16
Fantastic! Thanks so much, Greer.
Greer McGuinness 45:17
Thanks for having me.
Len Arcuri 45:18
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