Episode 268 — NEVER Give Away Your POWER

August 14, 2025•39 min read

Guest: Dr. Stephen Cowan • Date: August 14, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode continues the powerful conversation with Dr. Stephen Cowan. We explore the silent epidemic of parent disempowerment—and how to reclaim your authority with confidence, clarity, and connection.

About Dr. Stephen Cowan

Stephen Cowan, MD, is a board-certified pediatrician with over 35 years of experience and a subspecialty in Developmental Pediatrics. A fellow of the American Academy of Pediatrics and a clinical assistant professor at NY Medical College, Dr. Cowan bridges Eastern and Western medicine. His holistic approach empowers parents and honors the unique ecology of every child. He’s the author of Fire Child, Water Child, and several children’s books, including The Lost Elephant. He lectures internationally and serves as a member of the American Academy of Medical Acupuncture.

https://www.drstephencowan.com/

You’ll Discover

The 5 Big Questions That Guide Every Decision (5:00)
The 3 Nervous System States - and How To Shift Out of Freeze, Fight or Flight (8:32)
How Intuitive Power Emerges When Fear Is Cleared (10:58)
Why Observation Without Judgment is a Lost Art—and How to Reclaim It (17:58)
How To Hold Your Space (24:53)
The Power of Open-Ended Curiosity and the Do-Over (34:13)
A Practical Way To Elicit Two-Way Conversation With Your Child (37:22)
4 Steps to Reclaim Your Power as a Parent (45:56)

Referenced in This Episode

Full Transcript

Len Arcuri (00:02.385)
Hello and welcome to Autism Parenting Secrets. If you're a parent navigating autism, this episode is a powerful reset, just like the last episode with Dr. Steven Cowan, who this is part two of that conversation. And right now we're really focusing on the, hold on a second. I'm reading the wrong one, sorry. Let me just, yeah, so I'll just start it over again and.
Stephen (00:27.276)
No worries.
Len Arcuri (00:31.119)
and I'll just edit that first part out. All right, here we go.
Hello and welcome to Autism Parenting Secrets. Once again, I'm with Dr. Steven Cowan. This is part two of our deep conversation. And this one, a little bit different focus than last week's episode. If you've ever felt unsure or dismissed or overwhelmed, this one's for you. We explore the silent epidemic of parent disempowerment and how do we claim your authority with calm, clarity and conviction.
You'll hear exactly why your child needs you at total full power and how to stop giving away that power. secret this week is never give away your power. And I'm excited to welcome back Dr. Stephen Cowen. Thanks so much again. It's fantastic again to continue this conversation with you. A different concept, parents giving away their power. What have you seen over decades with how
Stephen (01:18.414)
Good to be here.
Stephen (01:29.004)
Yeah, it's such a, it's a very rich topic that I see every single day. It's good to be back, Lan, and talk with you. And this idea of giving away your power or being disempowered as a parent is, I see a pervasive problem in parenting, actually, all different kinds of parenting, right from the day one that a baby's born.
So in my PEDS practice, and know, at Tite, before I left the practice to just pursue my developmental practice, we had 16,000 patients. And I was running to deliveries all the time and dealing with newborns, and I love newborns. And the thing I think I love the most about newborns is empowering new parents to recognize that they're the expert.
on their baby. Now in our modern culture, where we're not living in a tribe, you know, with grandparents and aunties who have advised us and seen us as babies, we're all isolated.
right? There is a tendency to feel a little isolated when you bring a baby into the world and then you surrender your power to the expert. Whether that expert is a pediatrician or doctor, a book on parenting or Dr. Google. Yeah, Dr. Google is a big one.
Len Arcuri (03:09.393)
Right. Or your parents, right, in terms of what they said about
Stephen (03:14.302)
or your parents, you know, so a lot of times there's the it's funny we had this conversation the the the in-laws I often call outlaws because they can disrupt your own power right because you don't believe in yourself you don't trust yourself I've been doing a lot of work on this
There's a company called Healthy Baby that I've been advising. They make high-end, well-crafted products for babies, diapers and ointments and various things, and Healthy Baby. And what I've been brought in is this whole idea of empowering.
parents to feel the confidence that they can navigate the journey, this wonderful journey of ups and downs, day after day, sleepless nights, etc. With confidence, with a sense of empowerment, and it's so easy to give that power away to people who seem like they know better generically, but they don't know your situation.
your context, as I talked about in the last episode, context matters. So your situation, and that changes with each kid you have, your situation with this particular child is unique on the planet. You can make general recommendations, but if someone asks me a question like, you know, when should I start solids?
parent will ask a simple question like that. said, well, yeah, I could give you a general answer, like a philosophy, but don't take that. Because now you've given away your power because you know your child better than me. You live with your child 24 seven. So first, who's your child? Second, where are they in their developmental cycle? Where are they?
Stephen (05:31.614)
gonna eat. So it's who, where, when, how, and why. These are the five big questions that every story, it's the five elements of all stories, right? You can't have a story without these five. So first, who? Who is my child? Where are you guys developmentally in the cycle of development? There are lots of questions about that.
When is the big question, know, when is the best time to start feeding my child? Well, that'll depend on who and where, right? Who he is and where they are developmentally will determine when. And then how is answered based on the when. How becomes a process, which is big in your language, Len, this how in your parenting coaching, because it's all process driven, which I love.
It's really important in Carol Dweck's work on mindset, which every parent should read. There's a comparison between fixed mind and growth mind. There you go, mindset. So all the research, elegant research has shown that
When we have a fixed mindset, no matter how brilliant we are, we stand in our own way of success. But when we have a growth mindset, that's the journey, not the destination. You don't have to be a genius and you will find real success and fulfillment in your life. There's research that supports this. So how is a growth mindset statement? Well, how do I feed my baby? know, how, you know,
All the how is like, should I cook it myself? Well, how do I start? There's so much richness in how. And then why, which is sometimes a heavy question, why has to do with causal relationships? If this, then that.
Stephen (07:40.14)
why am I feeding my baby, right? It becomes much more philosophical and I think a lot of parents give away their power because of why. Let me give you an example. Why is my baby sick? Now instead of thinking it out because I don't feel like I have the resources, I go to the expert and say why is my baby sick? I'm dealing with a kid right now.
Len Arcuri (07:52.731)
Please.
Stephen (08:05.826)
The mother emailed me, baby's in the hospital. It's not baby, six-year-old is in the hospital. They can't figure out what's wrong. Vomiting, vomiting, vomiting, vomiting, now having like shivers when she pees. All tests are negative. And the mom who's an acupuncturist lives fairly far away. I haven't seen the kid in years.
is saying Steve you know you like these kind of things you know can we problem solve together which is great because she's not giving away her power but she senses something they're missing something so I don't want to take away her sense but I also don't want her fear to be paralyzing right so power I think you're familiar with Stephen Porgis
Len Arcuri (08:58.395)
Sure, probably eagle theory.
Stephen (08:58.598)
polyvagal theory so he defines three levels of our existence and it relates to giving away your power so at the lowest level the most extreme stress and parenting can be stressful we go into freeze mode reptilian brain freeze mode where we just are in lockdown we're just frozen
Len Arcuri (09:27.375)
Is that dorsal?
Stephen (09:28.982)
That's dorsal and everything shuts down including your gut. Everything shuts down. It's like deer in the headlights kind of thing, you know, or a possum playing dead. Literally frozen.
So we call that immobilization, Stephen Poor just calls it immobilization with fear.
The next level up is fight or flight. It's not frozen. It's activated. Fight or flight. Run away or fight. That is mobilization with fear.
Okay. And that might have a semblance more power, but technically it's not human power. It's animal power. It's not reptilian frozen. It's activated, run away or fight, but it's not human power.
So at the highest level, the neocortex, the human gift of adaptation to change is immobilization without fear or immobilization without fear.
Stephen (10:54.552)
So let me explain those two because that's what we mean by don't give away your power. let's take immobilization without fear is like meditation or intimacy, know, holding hands, sitting, staring at the stars together, quiet time, right?
Len Arcuri (11:11.729)
Thanks.
Len Arcuri (11:16.955)
Would breath work be in there? Yeah.
Stephen (11:18.626)
breath work, anything that's quiet, you're not really moving around, you're not doing much, you're being together. That's immobilization without fear. And a lot of intuitive power comes from immobilization without fear, right? I want to tap a parent's intuition.
every time I meet them because they often have the answer when you clear away fear.
But if the fear is there, they can't think straight and they can't get that deep intuitive message that only they know.
Stephen (12:05.314)
That's the high level of power. Right? That is just so wonderful when I can do that. And often I'll do it like this. Whether it's a sick baby or well baby, it doesn't matter. Or a nervous parent. I'll wrap the baby up.
Stephen (12:26.574)
sit them on the mother's lap and I'll have her breathe into her belly, like yoga breathing or kung fu breathing, so that the breath work regulates your own parasympathetic nervous system and translates into the baby's spine and the baby magically wakes up, opens their eyes and locks into mom or dad. And often answers come.
I can't explain it from my Western medical hat, but they have an intuitive insight when they calm everything down and eliminate all the worries of what if and why.
then all of a sudden an answer will come. You know, there was a study done at Harvard 20 years ago, a really interesting study. I should find it and send it to you.
that a mother's intuition is more sensitive with regards to something being off with their child than any tests we doctors have.
Stephen (13:47.542)
more selective, more sensitive, right? But we keep shutting it down with our expertise. We know better. We bulldoze through whatever their fears are. So this mother with the child in the hospital today that I've been emailing, she has this intuitive sense. She's an experienced acupuncturist, so she knows about cultivating intuition.
But we doctors don't trust intuition. We want to measure a test, but all the tests came back normal. So they're at, it's probably viral. We'll hold the baby in the hospital for another day. Give them antibiotics and, you know, the holy grail of antibiotics and hope that it resolves.
Len Arcuri (14:22.384)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen (14:40.118)
The mother's, my job in that situation is to help her ground herself into really observing the child. She has to get out of her own head and into her heart. What I call it is when you're in your head, you're dead. When you're in your heart, you're smart. And so this intuitive power of just assessing the baby in this real time moment.
not the what-ifs of the future or the why of the past. Just staying centered, often the answer will come.
in terms of what's really going on. This seems like woo-woo, voodoo kind of stuff, but it's real medicine, you know, you just have to actually honor it. But the key is immobilization without fear is the eliminating the fear and that takes practice. I can't just paternalistically say, don't worry little lady, because that's ridiculous, that's arrogance.
Len Arcuri (15:40.049)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen (15:40.226)
There is actually a method to clearing fear. And it does involve breath work or internal awareness, interoception. It's called how full is your stomach right now? How much pee is in your bladder right now? Those kind of exercises help re-center you.
and then intuition wakes up and you get answers and possibilities, solutions start emerging. That's like magic. I love doing that and it's part of my mission is to help parents feel that they have the answers if you can just clear this mind that gets in the way. Mobilization without fear is heroic action.
You're doing something. You're in the zone. You're just doing it and you know it feels right. Right? I know your story Len for years now. I mean I think I met your son when he was four or something. I can't remember exactly. You know it was a long time ago and you guys knew the right action you were going to make.
his benefit. You made some bold moves in your lives, huge moves, but the mobilization of moving from New York down south, you know, this is mobilization without fear. There was a kind of inspirational motivation.
Stephen (17:22.506)
And that's heroic. Now I think immobilization, sort of the meditative practices are just as heroic, but they're quiet heroism. This taking action from confidence, from vision, from seeing the possibilities, that's taking back your power. A lot of times teachers, doctors,
in-laws, outlaws, you know, we'll take away our powers as parents because they and their experience seem like they know better. And then we feel caught, you know, we're taking a risk and we don't want to, we don't want to do, we love our kids so much, we don't want to do anything to harm them, so we surrender our power out of fear.
Fear is the bugaboo that forces us to surrender our power. And there's a lot of misinformation out there in the world, particularly on the internet, that feeds on fear. Fear sells. Just look at the news media. Fear sells newspapers. Fear sells news channels on TV.
The story of this earthquake and tidal wave, I was in San Diego teaching and my friends were about to go, they rented a house in Hawaii and after I left they were going to fly to Hawaii and they freaked out, they started freaking out because what if the tidal wave wipes out their, house they rented.
they're already ahead and should we call them and try to make sure we're going to get our money back? All this stuff all triggered by this news media trigger right of fear and now they're in what-if mode. They've given away all their expertise, their trust, their power of observation. Let's talk about observation for a second because this is how we take back our power. Marshall Rosenberg talks about this. Krishnamurti talks about this.
Stephen (19:35.582)
great Indian philosopher. It's called Observation Without Judgment.
All right. So what does that mean? This is a mix of this neocortical power of active and inactive empowerment without fear. So all the listeners, rather than saying, you know, my kid did this.
And already we've judged it as wrong. Or you get a report from a teacher. Your child was disruptive in class.
Len Arcuri (20:25.295)
Hmm.
Stephen (20:29.172)
What I start with, you know, if I want to speak to the teacher, because the parents were already disempowered by that statement, I will say to the teacher, so I don't want your evaluation or your judgment, just tell me what you observed. And you find it's next to impossible for them to do without the judgment. Well, he shouldn't have, he should have been sitting in his seat. That's a judgment.
Right there, that's a judgment. Should've. You haven't told me what he's doing.
Len Arcuri (21:00.527)
Yep.
Stephen (21:05.337)
or you know he can't keep his hands to himself that's actually a judgment you're not observing
you're judging a behavior. So the observation would be, you know, little Billy got out of his seat and walked over to another kid and put his hands around him. Okay, that's an observation with no judgment.
I'll take them.
And then often I'll say, so why do you think he did that? What was he trying to accomplish with that action? What need was being met by that child when he got out of his seat and went over to another kid and hugged him? Because often they'll say, he doesn't know his personal space.
That's a full-on judgment. You haven't told me anything of your observations of what he's doing. You're biased already. But everybody goes into emergency mode. They want the problem solved. And so they don't bother to just observe. They just jump to the judgment. But once you see it and say, this child needs connection,
Stephen (22:30.956)
He's seeking connection.
Stephen (22:35.638)
Suddenly everybody settles down. And when I say that with a parent involved, suddenly they feel, yes, that is exactly my child. Now they're taking back their power.
because there's love in that, right? They're honoring what matters to this child, as opposed to demonizing, doesn't know his own boundaries or, you know, his personal space, right? So there is this subtle way of observing. You try it with yourself. As parents, try observing your own actions without judging them. Just observe, I'm, you know,
yelling at my son.
Len Arcuri (23:23.119)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen (23:25.098)
I'm frustrated. But what's the observation?
Because we often want to turn the attention away from ourselves towards the insider, right? My kid is bothering me.
That's a full-on judgment. My kid is bothering me. No, my kid is yelling. That's different. It's hurting my ears. Okay, that's a feeling.
Stephen (23:59.788)
you can say, it's hard for me to think straight when my child is yelling. Okay, that's a reasonable statement, but we're not pointing fingers at anybody yet. Ideally, we're never pointing fingers. We're just, because the heart has no fingers to point with. The mind has all the fingers pointing. The heart is simply receiving information.
Right? It's a satellite dish taking in information. I think we have someone you know who's been on your show, Zach Bush talks about this, about the heart being a resonator, right? It creates an electromagnetic field. And so the heart doesn't point fingers, doesn't blame, doesn't shame. It just receives information.
Len Arcuri (24:45.317)
Right.
Stephen (24:58.346)
So what is the information we're receiving if we can stop ourselves and just observe we're taking back our power. We are hugely observational creatures. Eyes, ears, nose, tongue, right, touch. We get massive information if we just stop the mind from blaming and pointing fingers. We receive so much information that we can
solve enormous problems. But we've got to get out of freeze and fight or flight in order to access that heart-based satellite dish of information gathering. And that's taking back power. That's a practice. And I work with parents, and you do too in many ways, to help them observe
what's going on. Show up and be present as we talked about in the last podcast. This presence of mind before we start judging as good or bad or right or wrong or should, right, or shame. Because it's uncanny how often solutions form themselves.
when we allow ourselves to be present and just observe, just watch it. I've once, several times I work with kids who are being bullied in school and I've taught them how to observe, how to hold their space, right? When I have them stick out their hands as wide as they can, I say, move that around in a circle, that's your space.
You own that space. But are you standing as if you own that space? Because if you're standing all hunched over, that's a target for the bully. You know, the lion doesn't go after the head of the herd. It goes at the back of the herd. So how you hold your space is number one, right? This is taking back your power. Parents have to understand how they're holding their space, too.
Stephen (27:23.66)
and then observe. Observe the, without saying a word, just observe the behavior. That has enormous power to disarm a bully when you're just standing there looking. Often a bully will say, what are you looking at? But you don't have to react to that. You just keep observing. Observe the tone of his voice, observe his body language, right? And hold your space.
and they'll go to somebody else. It's a martial art skill. It's a kung fu skill. Kung fu never attacks anybody. They deflect so they can walk away. That's the whole key to tai chi and kung fu is to deflect and walk away. So they may go flying but you've walked very casually away and had nothing. It's never seeking the fight.
Len Arcuri (28:05.297)
Right.
Stephen (28:25.346)
That's what's wrong with lot of kung fu movies where these guys are looking for fights. It's not kung fu.
Len Arcuri (28:30.497)
Yeah, it's not authentic. Well, I think that's a super powerful concept. And I really loved when you talked about how a parent can apply this to themselves, right? Because parents are just usually focused on the child, but if they can test this out with themself, and especially where you know I focus so much time and attention as well, is
Stephen (28:47.81)
Yes.
Len Arcuri (28:56.249)
What you're making a case for is apparent, what you're saying being for them to be more observant, which I would just kind of characterize as them just being curious, Leveraging curiosity. But you.
Stephen (29:07.278)
Curious is the right word. Curious is the right word. I used to teach medical students this thing. There's a phrase I would say when I walked into any room, whether it's an emergency room, whether it's a very sick person, or a treatment room in a busy office. I would walk in and say, hmm, what have we got here?
Just like that. Well, now, what have we got here? Just to remind myself to reset from whatever I was doing before into this world of curiosity without judgment, without pre-diagnosing or biasing or anything.
Len Arcuri (29:43.515)
Right.
But if we bring it back to a parent, right? If a parent's operating like I was, like every other parent I think, if you're operating and your default is judgment, whether it's of your child or yourself, there's zero room for curiosity and observation.
Stephen (30:03.054)
Correct. Absolutely correct. you inherit this, as we all do, from our parents, who inherited it from their parents, who were used to living in a structural setting of judgment, of shame and blame, as opposed to the ennobling of loving.
connection which is curiosity, staying curious. how, let me ask you this, I've done a lot of thinking about this, how can you practice curiosity for yourself as a parent? How can you practice it?
Len Arcuri (30:50.683)
Well, the way I do is by bringing that awareness to when I am judging, right? So for me, it is an intentional practice because it still doesn't come automatic.
Stephen (30:57.389)
That's good.
Stephen (31:02.486)
Yeah, but that's still looking for the judgment and trying to catch it. That's cool. But I'm asking a simpler question. Create a scenario where you get to practice curiosity. Any scenario that you can imagine.
Len Arcuri (31:19.857)
Yeah, it can be for me and it all, cause my attention is still always focused on my, particularly rye, right with his journey. So if he's exhibiting any behavior that I'm not wanting, right. And I've learned not to judge it, but if I'm like, okay, well that's not going to really serve you. Well, let's say for him, not having two way conversations and just having a conversation with someone only about the things he wants to talk about and not.
Stephen (31:44.557)
Yeah.
Stephen (31:48.236)
Yeah,
Len Arcuri (31:49.839)
Yeah, talking, of holding court instead of having a two-way conversation. That's something where I'm always looking at knowing I don't want it and I want him to be more successful, to have more successful conversations. I'm always curious about, what is it? What's the payoff for him? Why is he operating that way? So I try to bring...
Stephen (32:08.398)
Yeah.
Well, the why is great, but that's a heady thing. Why gets into your head in analysis? What I was getting at is the simplest place to practice curiosity is in nature, because it's endlessly surprising. There's so many curious things that you can observe.
Len Arcuri (32:25.371)
Hmm.
Stephen (32:32.078)
in a walk in the woods or in a park or somewhere, you know, at a different time of the year or season. That's practicing curiosity with no strings attached. You're in the belly of the beast when you're trying to practice it with your son. You're already like, that's taking it on the road. I'm talking about practicing first so you can experience open-hearted curiosity.
without the stressors of something happening that's forcing you to remind yourself not to judge, just practicing what it feels like. You know, I do this with kids when parents are often say, calm down, buddy. And I say, does he know what calm, has he experienced calm? Because you're asking him to go somewhere. If he has no experience, he won't know how to get there.
or what that is, calm. And you're telling him to do something he has no experience with. That's like saying, ride a bike and you've never been on a bike. So you have to have the experience of curiosity to know how to elicit it in the heat of the moment. That's what I was thinking.
Len Arcuri (33:24.529)
Mm.
Len Arcuri (33:40.209)
So you're saying being in nature is the way you grow that muscle.
Stephen (33:43.552)
It's one way. I mean, there are plenty of other ways, but what elicits this kind of open-hearted curiosity, right? Nature does it for me, but I'm asking you, what can you construct as a laboratory for experiencing open-hearted curiosity without judgment, besides nature? Can you think of something else? You know, I've done art with kids.
you know, or working with clay where they're feeling the materials without having to make it look like X or Y or Z, right? You know the free spirit of a three-year-old with crayons or markers? And then, you know, what the parent does or grandparent invariably says, what's that a picture of, Billy? And now you've killed the open-hearted curiosity.
because now it has to look like something. He was just playing with the colors and textures. That's open-hearted curiosity. And now we're overlaying what it should look. that doesn't look like a person. And then often a year later, the kid will come to me and I'll say, can you draw me something? Anything you want? I can't draw. It breaks my heart.
Len Arcuri (35:00.795)
Well, that, but this, this all goes back to again, the book above me, right? Where it's all about fixed versus growth mindset. Whereas a parent, you're instead of praising the outcome that it needs to look like a picture, you're praising, you're praising the effort, the process, the creativity.
Stephen (35:12.302)
test.
Stephen (35:16.16)
And that process, that effort, that creativity is the how of all the work you're doing, coaching parents. That's the how is the process. You're in it with open-hearted curiosity. You're in it and you're doing it. The outcome isn't what matters. When I was talking to all these teenagers from around the world this past week,
I opened it up for questions. You know, it 500 of these teenagers from everywhere you can imagine. It was amazing.
Len Arcuri (35:50.726)
And how did it feel for you to have that form?
Stephen (35:53.742)
Oh, it was so much fun. It was just so I just had a blast, you know, I was and they could tell I was having fun because, you know, I'm passionate about I was talking about the five powers and, you know, it was all great. But I asked, you know, let's talk about some challenging things you're doing. Let's make this real. And one kid, 15 year old girl stood up and said, you know, what do I do?
with you know my procrastination is due to sort of my what did she call it it was like my i can't forgive myself when i make mistakes
And I said, well, forgiveness is an easy one. That's the game I call the do-over. So the do-over is very simple, right? Or the reboot. I like the do-over. So I mess up.
I come home from work and I'm in a crabby mood and instead of saying hi to my wife, I bark at her. And then I realize it and that's the key to everything. Realizing.
then I say, can we do a do-over? And I leave, get back in my car, come out, come back in, hi honey, right? So that's actually asking for forgiveness. So whenever we're willing to do a do-over.
Stephen (37:35.788)
We're asking either ourselves for forgiveness. This is very important for parents because we're always messing up. Because you can't get it right the first time in parents because you've never been a parent before. So why put that burden on yourself? You have endless, endless do-overs and the kid will give you ample opportunity to try again.
Len Arcuri (37:47.152)
Yeah.
Stephen (37:59.704)
So just don't do the same thing every time. Switch it up. If you're to do a do-over, try it a different way the next time. So these are opportunities for practicing open-hearted curiosity in the moment with a kind of sense of humor, even though it seems like dire.
circumstances when your child isn't having a conversation with you and is only talking at you obsessively about something that he's talked about for the last five hours or whatever or isn't talking to you because he's busy on his iPad or whatever it is that's triggering. These are what I call our button pushers. They're our buttons, not our child's.
And I call those buttons the buttons of transformation. Right? Those buttons that are being pushed by your child are asking you to change.
Stephen (39:10.188)
not their problem. It's your irritation. Don't give away your power. See that button, cultivate that button and recognize, that button is being pushed and asking me that I have to transform something in myself. I'm not going to blame my child. What is it that I'm feeling what matters to me?
Len Arcuri (39:11.291)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen (39:39.448)
There's no shame in what matters to me. Let's make it grounded in a real situation. You want to have a conversation with Rye. A two-way back and forth game of catch, not a one-way dodgeball where he keeps throwing the same ball at you. So there's no shame in wanting to have that loving conversation with your son. There's no shame in it. So eliminate all the blame and shame.
Len Arcuri (39:55.408)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen (40:05.068)
So now we're free to explore what's a creative way of
helping elicit a back and forth game of catch. Now you can creatively solve that since we know what matters to you and if we turn the attention on a child and say well what matters to Raya is to deliver some information about something he's very passionate about that he's now talked for five hours about. And so the doors it's a one-way street and we want to make it a two-way street.
We want him to shine his attention on you. That's really simple. Once you create it, here's a really simple way to take back that power. Hey, Rye, ask me a question. I played this game with him on one of the podcasts, right? And it's hard for him, but that doesn't mean it's impossible for him to shift the attention back to me, right?
Len Arcuri (40:59.621)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen (41:09.044)
Ask me a question about what I did yesterday.
So he has to stop his rant to play the game. And if he can ask five questions, he can go back to telling me about the maps of Uruguay that he really wants to tell me about. So.
Len Arcuri (41:20.998)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen (41:33.9)
See if you can ask me five connected questions, right? So this game of is asking him to start engaging with me, listening to my answer, because it can't be FBI questions that are random questions. They have to be connected to the answer I give. And I'm not going to give away all the story all at once. I'm going to hold back. he has to it's like fishing. I'm going to try to hook him.
So now I'm getting your need met, right? You now have the power back in you to elicit this game of conversation. And then notice.
how it feels for both of you when you're actually engaged in something. Now, for teenagers like you have, the trick of conversation.
get back your power with your child, forget experts, is to go for a drive where there's no eye contact and you're much more likely to have a good deep conversation with your child.
when there's no eye contact and they're looking out the window and there's movement and that's eliciting some wood energy and there's novelty and you can start, hey, did you see that? Look at that tree over there. That's weird. Open-hearted curiosity. And if then your son says, yeah, look at that, wow. And you say, hold on, I'm going to slow down. Let's check that out. What do you think's going on there? I don't know. I think it's like.
Stephen (43:14.71)
Now you've roped them into a conversation through the thing that is the oldest human cultural experience and that's migration, movement, noticing things, landmarks, right? We were migratory beings. We roamed hunter gatherers, roamed out of Africa and into the world.
And so it elicits a more relaxed way of connecting and very empowered. Taking back your power as opposed to sitting across from someone and say, I want to have a conversation with you right now. You know, and it's not flowing then it's FBI.
Len Arcuri (43:49.595)
Yeah.
Len Arcuri (43:55.525)
Bye.
Len Arcuri (44:01.745)
Yeah, you're basically creating a more safer and a more natural environment, if you will, or a container to have those conversations.
Stephen (44:08.814)
Exactly. Exactly. And safe implies no fear. And then you can access these higher brain centers, the neocortex, where there's immobilization without fear and mobilization without fear. you're active. know, Stephen Porges calls it the social engagement network. That's what you're trying to elicit and access. But it takes getting out of fight or flight.
Len Arcuri (44:29.425)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen (44:37.344)
and all the obsessive compulsiveness that's involved with fight or flight. So, yes, safe environment, curiosity, novel, you know, not repetitive, right? Not going back to Disneyland for the 15th time and wanting to do exactly the same order of rides. You're mixing it up. You're doing something new for both of you.
And then you take back your pound.
Len Arcuri (45:10.961)
no, this conversation's fire. And I guess I wanted to ask early, I just have to ask, you've been at this for decades, 30 years, let's say working with parents. okay, so the concept of a parent giving away their power, is it the same? Is it much worse? What have you seen from the parents that you've worked with? I'm curious.
Stephen (45:19.95)
Almost 40, yeah.
Stephen (45:30.892)
Hmm, that's a good question. I don't know what, let, you know how I'm going to answer, I would say it's more scattered, scattering your power now. Whereas in, you know, the 80s, the doctor was God. And so you, parents often gave away all their power to the doctor or the expert, the education expert or whoever it was, teacher.
Len Arcuri (45:37.201)
Thank
Len Arcuri (45:49.489)
Right.
Stephen (45:59.906)
But now it's more scattered giving away your power. So the internet, When my parents had me, there was one book on parenting, right? That was Dr. Spock's book. Yeah. And do know what the secret of Dr. Spock's book was? I read it not long ago.
Len Arcuri (46:05.691)
Mm.
Len Arcuri (46:14.462)
Is that Dr. Spock?
Stephen (46:28.118)
looking for like the keys to what was his message now that I'm a seasoned pediatrician and it's one message trust yourself over and over and over again at the end of every chapter that's what he's trying to elicit so but now you go to Barnes and Noble or Amazon and there are hundreds of books on parenting
So giving away your power is now scattered among kind of like infinite number of experts that you've given away to. And I don't know if it's worse than just giving it away to one dominant egotistical doctor or teacher or whatever. It's different. It's scattered.
Len Arcuri (47:07.386)
Mm-hmm.
Len Arcuri (47:15.345)
taking on a different form. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And all those books are basically, you know, some maybe, but most of them are not helping a parent to trust themselves. It's more like, here's what you need to do, which again, is giving you a better.
Stephen (47:30.434)
which is giving away your power. Yeah, so the first step and why I wrote the Fire Child book was at least to try one step closer to understanding the uniqueness of your relationship with your child.
to better define what's unique as opposed to just a generic recommendation, right? Because I don't want to create more harm. People have been asking me to write another book on parenting for years. And I'm in the process of one, but every step of the way, I stop and talk to my wife and say, I don't think this is a good idea because I don't want to create more harm.
by making any statement that is imposing on the uniqueness of a particular family's world. By my statements, it can cause harm. I swore an allegiance, the Hippocratic oath, to first do no harm. conversations like this are better for me than writing a book that's in print that then says, all babies should.
Len Arcuri (48:36.485)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen (48:42.292)
All babies should never, all babies should, you know, anything like that freaks me out now because I know I'm stressing somebody out out there because it doesn't...
Len Arcuri (48:51.761)
Well, I appreciate your passion. Yeah. I appreciate your passion to be helpful and useful and your humility, right? Which is another key concept, I think, for, for parents to adopt. But I guess bringing, so bringing this conversation, um, kind of back to how it started, right? Where if a parent is giving away their power and I know there's no one size fits all, there's no 10 step plan, but would you agree with this in terms of like high level, just kind of bringing this all together?
Stephen (49:00.174)
Yeah.
Len Arcuri (49:20.387)
If a parent's wanting to step more fully into their power and not give anything away, I would argue the first step is an openness to unlearning a lot of what maybe they've learned up until now. The second would be to literally raise their hand and want to be in the driver's seat, right? And know that they can trust their intuition, that it's worth listening to. And then the third step would
Stephen (49:31.23)
I it. I love it.
Stephen (49:45.935)
So that second one we will call confidence. The word confidence means fiduciary, con and fiduciary. So that's trusting oneself. Okay, so we have open, openness, unlearning and confidence to actually take that step. And what's your third?
Len Arcuri (49:59.056)
Mm-hmm.
Len Arcuri (50:02.875)
confidence in it. Yep.
Len Arcuri (50:12.623)
And the third one, think, relying on what you said at the outset is then there's a whole bunch of things they can do to clear the fear.
Stephen (50:23.052)
Yes, so then there's clearing the fear. I think clear the fear should be number one and open unlearning is number two and confidence is number three and number four which is sort of the holy grail of all of this is to recognize that we are relational beings that we are not isolated beings there is no biologic
Len Arcuri (50:29.905)
okay.
Stephen (50:52.466)
or physical evidence of that. Quantum physics, Carlo Rivelli, one of the brilliant minds in quantum physics, who's written amazing books, recognized, had this revelation that we are only relationships and that we are more verb than noun.
Don't fall into the trap of thinking yourself as isolated and you have all this weight on yourself because it's the relationship where the magic happens. Right? And so that you have a, are you in relation with your child? Look at the quality of that relationship. That would be number four. we have clear the fear, unlearn, be open to unlearning what you think you know.
have the confidence and curiosity to engage, to make a move, because we don't want paralysis either. We want there to be pro action.
Stephen (52:01.29)
and be in relationship, stay in relationship, recognize that it's the relationship where the money is. So that you're not putting that weight on yourself to have to get it right or the what ifs or all that stuff, free yourself from the burden of that and realize that, what's happening in my child is happening in me.
And what's happening in me is happening in the universe, right? So, you know, if the sun is coming up, the sun's coming up inside me too, right? So we are relational beings and that's a way of staying engaged, open, curious, and fearless in our parenting. Fearless is such a great word because, you know, the language I use is how to be a hero.
Len Arcuri (52:57.403)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen (52:57.708)
And when I ask kids, every kid I interview now over the age of five, give me some qualities of a hero. And they think of Spider-Man or Batman. said, no, no, real hero.
And I'll ask them, who's a hero in your life? And always they mention a parent. And I'll say, well, why do you think your parent, your mom or your dad is a hero? Well, they help me out, know, they show up for me, you know, when I'm upset. So caring, okay, so caring is one quality. What about brave? Oh, yes, a hero has to be brave. What about never giving up? Oh, yes. I mean, these are qualities of every parent I've ever met.
Len Arcuri (53:39.94)
Right?
Stephen (53:41.804)
And when you take back that hero status, there's nothing you can't do.
Len Arcuri (53:49.755)
Well, that is a super powerful message to end this conversation with. And I think that's dynamite. And for parents who are listening, Dr. Cowan just provided you the four steps. So I said there is no step-by-step, but those are four very powerful steps.
Stephen (54:04.91)
And maybe it's a different order for different people. Yeah.
Len Arcuri (54:08.069)
Sure, sure, but powerful nonetheless. So again, Dr. Cowan, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and experience. This is just a very, very powerful discussion. I thank you so much for what you do.
Stephen (54:14.316)
My pleasure.
Stephen (54:22.904)
Well, I thank you, Len, because your journey with your kids is what enriches the conversation we're having. And this is the relational aspect in real time you're observing it. I could be interviewed by somebody where it's just a static, terrible question answered. This flows because of what you bring to the table.
of your journey. So hold that power. Honor that. Accept the compliment that I'm honoring in you that is the fuel for this conversation.
Len Arcuri (55:07.865)
I will do that, I appreciate that. And for everyone listening, everything in terms of what Dr. Cowan said about how heroic what you're doing is now, take that in as well. no doubt. Thank you again, Dr. Cowan.
Stephen (55:18.856)
definition of what a hero is.
Stephen (55:25.998)
Be well my friend. Say hi to everybody.
Len Arcuri (55:28.891)
Will do.

Len Arcuri

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