Episode 202 — Take WATER SAFETY Seriously
Guest: Dayna Harvey • Date: May 2, 2024
Episode Overview
This week we focus on the incredibly important topic of water safety for kids on the autism spectrum. We’re joined by Dayna Harvey, a Water Safety Expert on a mission to eradicate drowning. It’s the leading cause of accidental death and kids on the autism spectrum are 160 times more at risk.
About Dayna Harvey
Dayna Harvey is a Water Safety Expert (educating and empowering parents with information, strategies, and hands-on tools to keep their children safer in and around water), and she is a swimming lesson teacher (instructing children in the skills they need to save their lives). Dayna was first certified in 1988 and she has been impacting families ever since. The mission to eradicate drowning has intensified as drowning continues to be the #1 cause of accidental death in children under 5. Dayna and the Waiting Whale kids have created The WATCHING Initiative and The Waiting Whale - Water Safety Kit, important tools for parents to have in their homes as they teach their children "Where there is water, I will WAIT!"
www.facebook.com/WaterSafetyWithMissDayna/about
You’ll Discover
The Shocking Rate of Drowning for Kids on the Autism Spectrum (4:00)
Why Swimming Lessons Aren’t Enough (6:56)
The WATCHING Initiative (8:57)
Why Supervision Isn’t Enough (11:47)
The Biggest Distraction For Parents (14:49)
Why EVERYBODY In Your Circle Needs To Be Vigilant (17:24)
The Limitations of Life Jackets (21:59)
Not Knowing Is Not OK (27:22)
Referenced in This Episode
Full Transcript
Dayna Harvey | 00:00
Drowning is the number one cause of accidental death in all children with autism. Doesn't matter what age. From zero to 18, it's the number one cause of accidental death.
So, you know, we know they're drawn to water. We know they're sensory seeking. And now we know that it is the number one cause of death. We've got to do better. We just have to begin to do better.
Cass Arcuri | 00:22
Want to truly be the best parent you can be and help your child thrive after their autism diagnosis? This podcast is for all in parents like you who know more is possible for your child.
Len Arcuri | 00:33
- With each episode, we reveal a secret that empowers you to be the parent your child needs now, saving you time, energy, and money, and helping you focus on what truly matters most, your child.
Cass Arcuri | 00:44
- I'm Cass. - And I'm Len. - Welcome to Autism Parenting Secrets.
Len Arcuri | 01:00
Hello and welcome to Autism Parenting Secrets. It's Len and this week It's more or less a PSA, but an important one, a public service announcement.
Something I know I didn't take nearly as seriously as I should have early on when I became a parent, you know, with my wife, Cass, and our two kids. So today I'm honored to have joining us today, Dayna Harvey. She's a water safety expert. Who's educating and empowering parents with information, strategies, and tools To keep their children safer in and around water. And she's a swimming lesson teacher who instructs children in the skills they need to save their own lives. Dana was first certified in 1998 and has been helping families ever since. And her mission to eradicate drowning has intensified as drowning continues to be the number one cause of accidental death in children under five. The secret this week is... Take water safety seriously. Welcome, Dana.
Dayna Harvey | 02:01
Thank you. It's great to be here.
Len Arcuri | 02:04
I appreciate you reaching out. This is a topic I never would have thought was on my initial radar for this podcast, but this is all about empowering parents with information, things that maybe they don't know or don't fully appreciate. And so I couldn't think of something more important than the physical health and the life of a child. And I know drowning was something I was worried about initially, you know, where we were living, looking around. And I have to say there wasn't really much in terms of resources to help us figure out what our options are.
So, yeah. Talk to us a little bit about what in the decades that you've been serving parents, what are the ahas? What are the things they really need to know?
Dayna Harvey | 02:45
Well, you know, my teaching goes back to, I mean, the first time I ever worked with a child that was diagnosed with autism was in 1998. And, you know, I had never heard that term before. I didn't know what that meant. And the family, when we had a little meeting, that conversation went to... They didn't want their child to be labeled, which is why we didn't have this discussion. And I thought that's not going to be acceptable.
So, you know, over these past 25 years, I've worked with so many children on the spectrum from top to bottom and all the way around. And what I've realized is that it is What we need to be doing with our children who have an ASD diagnosis, it's exactly the same as with our neurotypical children. But sometimes we have to modify how we do that and the words that we're using and the phrases and all of those kinds of things.
So, you know, I created a strategy. Well, it's a set of strategies. It's called the Watching Initiative to help parents have eight children. Implementable like immediately implementable strategies to help them keep their children be safer in and around water some of those things have more to do with water than not and but helping parents navigate this world is something that i really want to be able to be successful at so that our children will not drown You know, with children with autism, they are at a 160 times greater risk of drowning than their neurotypical peers.
Len Arcuri | 04:17
160 times.
Dayna Harvey | 04:20
Greater.
Len Arcuri | 04:21
Yes. Wow. And I think I just want to sit on that for a little bit.
I mean, that's incredible. Because I knew intuitively there must be more likely, but 160 times, just to focus on that for a second, what do you think? Is there is the driver behind it? Because I know just from my experience, you know, kids on the spectrum tend to be more fearless, right? And perhaps because they're more courageous or perhaps they just don't have the awareness of knowing what to be afraid of.
So I know that's got to be a piece of it. But my guess is there's other elements at play.
Dayna Harvey | 04:55
You know, that's a huge piece of it. The other component is that, you know, children with ASD are So many of them are sensory seeking. And water is sensory. It looks Cool. It sounds cool. It feels cool. And so children are drawn to that. There was a study that was done at Columbia university and they were talking that the professor that did that was talking about the fact that, We they're drawn to it, but because most children don't have a skill set to be safe in it, that combination is deadly.
So We want to, they tend to go to places to seek the sensory of a calming effect. You know, water is calming how it sounds and all of those things.
So that's one of the reasons. So in Florida last year in 2023, There. Children with autism accounted for 13% of the deaths. In children in Florida.
So there were 99 total deaths, 13 of them were children with autism. That is a huge number from one very specific demographic. And, you know, another statistic is that drowning is the number one cause of accidental death in all children with autism. Doesn't matter what age from zero to 18. It's the number one cause of accidental death.
So, you know, we know they're drawn to water. We know they're sensory seeking. And now we know that it is the number one cause of death. We've got to do better. We just have to begin to do better.
Len Arcuri | 06:34
And a lot of that, obviously, I think a parent who might be listening is like, OK, I need to teach my kid to be, you know, to be more aware of water. But I'm guessing there's lots of steps for the parent first before they even begin to teach the child anything.
Dayna Harvey | 06:48
Correct. Well, so and it's a lot of. Programs or other water safety things, they talk immediately about swim lessons. And yes, swim lessons is critically important. In that same study with the Columbia University, they talk about Swimming lessons being an equivalent to any PT, OT, speech therapy. If we're doing those kinds of things, swimming lessons needs to be Like in that top tier of things we're doing. But here's the problem. There's not enough trained qualified instructors who are working with children with different i call it special learning needs it's not just autism there's lots of them so there's not enough instructors there's not enough trained instructors so how do we begin to navigate that world i am certified through a program called autism swim and that is a program out of australia and i On their website, they've got lots of instructors through the U.S. As well.
So, you know, parents can go in and type in their zip code and see if there is an instructor close by, you know, and if there's not close by going to your different programs and facilities and asking the very specific questions. Is your are these instructors certified to teach? Because in the United States, swim instructors do not need to be certified. Nothing.
Len Arcuri | 08:08
That's incredible at all.
Dayna Harvey | 08:10
Zero. Nothing.
Like a private instructor like myself, if a facility will rent me space. They don't need certification. There's no insurance requirement, no CPR first aid, nothing. I can just say, well, I used to teach or I mean, I used to swim, so therefore I should teach.
So empowering parents to ask the questions. Is my instructor certified? Can I watch them in a class? Do they work with children with special learning needs? And if the answers are yes or no. Then we can begin to make better choices for our children. Do you want a one-on-one class? But you know, so swimming lessons for me is at the very end of everything.
Like you said, there's so much that can happen that needs to happen ahead of time to keep our children safe around water. And so, you know, that's what the watching initiative is. The a in, so it's an acronym.
So the a is assign a waiting area. I taught a little boy six years ago. His name is Jackson. And he is actually really the one that inspired me to put this whole water safety kit together. In lessons when Jackson would stim, I didn't want him to fall in the pool. He was in a Typical class, he was in an integrated class with three other children. So when he would stim, like want to splash the water, I didn't want him to fall in the pool.
So I put a little blue kickboard on the side of the pool and that was his waiting area. So he would sit there, wait for his turn and we would come and go. So that became critical, not just in swimming lessons, but then when he was at the pool with his parents to be able to teach him how My whole concept of where there's water, I will wait.
So we, I turned and I'll show you this super quick. So this is what it turned into.
So the blue kickboards turn into an actual waiting mat. This is Wilson, my character. And Wilson actually has ASD. That is his diagnosis. But so having a waiting mat for the kids to sit and wait on. And you can use a towel. I don't care. Just to create that safe space for them so they know this is where we're going to go. -.
Len Arcuri | 10:26
And for those listening, that's a mat that a child would stand on with Wilson the whale It's a character, animated, fun. And so that is the mat that the child would learn that that's where they go in order to be before... Going into.
Dayna Harvey | 10:46
Before we go to water, we would go to our waiting, our established waiting area. And, you know, with children, and Jackson was nonverbal.
So, I mean, he was very kind of that middle functioning. But this is a thing that he knew. He knew he came to lessons, sat on his mat, we waited.
So teaching our children where there's water, I will wait. It starts in the bathroom. For people who live in states or places where they don't have regular access to water, we can start teaching this in our bathtubs.
And then if you've got water anywhere around because they're drawn to water, if there's a canal or two doors down, those people have a pool. We've got to be teaching our children how they're going to interact with water. Otherwise, again, we end up in an accident situation.
Yeah.
Len Arcuri | 11:37
I'm guessing it's a fine line between that education and then not. Teaching them to be afraid of water either.
Dayna Harvey | 11:46
Yeah, no, I never want a child to be afraid. I want them to be respectful. And I want parents to, parents not want to, parents must be a part of this process.
You know, it doesn't matter where you take swimming lessons. If your child is in the water once a week or twice a week for 30 minutes, that is not enough time for them to consistently get what they need where water safety information and education training is concerned. It should be.
Like we deal with car seats. Every time our children get in the car, they sit in their car seat or in their booster seat. For me, That's how I look at our waiting area. It's like a car seat, but for water.
So if we're, if we are implementing something in their life every single day, every time we go around water, we're going to have a much more positive result, much more So the T stands for touch watching.
Len Arcuri | 12:32
Quickly. Great. That makes sense.
So can you give us the whole acronym and then, yeah, and then obviously.
Dayna Harvey | 12:41
And I know that's a weird word combination in my industry. The word supervision is what is typically used. The word supervised means to observe. There is zero parents with a child on this spectrum who supervises their child, not Xero. We are watching our children.
So it just made sense to switch that word out. So every time somebody says supervise, I think watch.
So touch watching means that unless your child is an independent safe swimmer, you are in the water with them. And within their arm's reach of us. We can't sit in a chair and... Observe. We can't sit on the side of the pool. We are giving them inappropriate independence and the thought then that, well, if I'm in the water now on my own this time.
So there's not that thing that says maybe next time it's not going to be okay. And again, that's how children end up in water and in a drowning incident because we've allowed them that opportunity to be by themselves in the pool.
Len Arcuri | 13:53
And related to that, my guess is it's a pretty high percent of the number of deaths that do happen with a parent who's in proximity, like perhaps supervising, right? Or maybe on the phone, maybe gets distracted, but because they feel like they're relatively close, that that's safe enough. And I think you'd make the case that that's absolutely not.
Dayna Harvey | 14:14
True. Absolutely not true. And I think this statistic is something like 80% or 85% of drownings happen with an adult nearby.
So if the adult is upstairs, then we're in an outside pool, or we're downstairs and they're in the bathtub, whatever. They get in, they turn the knobs on.
You know, we are in... Proximity of those children when they drown. And the fact that you use cell phones as the thing, the C in the watching initiative is cell phones down so children don't drown. It is our biggest distraction. A study through Business Insider said that we touch our phones.
So not necessarily open, but touch on the screen. I think it's 2,647 times a day.
Well, when you add up how long we're on our phones to how long it takes for a drowning to happen, It's got to stop. If your child is around water, I know we want to take pictures and take videos and that kind of thing for those memories. But. At what cost?
Len Arcuri | 15:23
Yeah, and that's an issue across the board with so many different things, driving, etc. But no, I can totally see how incredibly true that would be here in this situation. And so maybe if we could just dive down a little bit deeper about time. Because I could easily see myself as the parent or I was that parent who, okay, I'm nearby. My child's in the water, he's fine. My daughter is fine. But the speed at which drowning can take place and cause harm, if not death, my sense is it must be much faster than most people think.
Dayna Harvey | 15:58
Yes, it's... For most children, it's probably less than a minute where that happens. And it's silent.
You know, in the movies, we see how that's not what's happening. Those are weak swimmers. Those are not non swimmers, which is what most of our children under the age of five are truly non swimmers. Non-swimmers.
So when children are used to being in the water, especially in a flotation device of one kind or another, and we'll talk about that in the next strategy, their body position is straight up and down. So their head is up and their feet are down in these flotation devices.
So if a child goes in, and then for me, that's called the drowning position. Because if a child in a life goes into water on their own and they do this and they don't come back up to get a breath, It... It's less than a minute. If they cannot force themselves to the top of the water to get a breath before they go back down or roll over onto their back, they're not coming up for a breath. And that is a tragedy waiting to happen.
So, yeah, you know, we're. Families, if you hear, " I just took my eyes off of them for a minute," Well, what can happen in a minute? They get into flower and they throw it all over or they get into lipstick and write all over or markers.
You know, in those situations, a minute. Isn't life-threatening to them, but around water it is.
Len Arcuri | 17:23
Yeah, no, the term that keeps jumping into my mind is vigilance. And that actually brings up, at least as I'm thinking as you're talking, and this is, again, such an important topic. I think between particularly a mom and a dad, There's a constant tension where dads are much more like, let the kid fend for themselves. The mom's much more hovering and maybe helicoptering and overly protective. And so I think here's a good example where This is something where And vigilance is just required because it's so critical, regardless of your parent style, whether you're hovering or whether you're kind of, you know, just put the kid out and, you know, let them come back, you know, for dinner type of thing. And so I do think there's different philosophies that mom and dad may bring to the table, but universally, yeah.
You know, as they're trying to do the best they can for their child, this is just such a safety issue that to be more vigilant than perhaps you were raised with or what the other.
Dayna Harvey | 18:22
Or what your experiences were. Yeah. And you bring up a good point about that mom and dad, but you know, grandparents take kids around water, babysitters take kids around water, you know, aunts and uncles or friends.
I mean, you've got to get everybody in your circle on board with how we're going to treat water. Because again, you know, with any child, never mind just a child that thinks differently. You can't go at home in one way and then at grandparents' house, it's a different way.
And then our babysitters, it's another way. The consistency factor must be there to help us be successful in teaching our children where there's water. I will wait.
I mean, it's got to be the same. Everybody's got to be on that same page.
Len Arcuri | 19:09
And that's a super important message. And again, how the child receives it. I would imagine we want the child to receive that message clearly and for them to really understand it, but for it to be something that's not, again, pressured.
So how do you kind of make this engaging, you know, help them to inspire them to take it seriously without it feeling, you know, again, negative in a way. Well, I mean, I know it's a safety issue, so yeah, you impose consequences as needed. But just again, I would imagine if we really want children to understand whether they're neurotypical or on the spectrum, You want to make this in some way interesting, engaging, perhaps fun to take precautions and keep yourself safe.
Dayna Harvey | 19:57
And, you know, I want this to be proactive. So much about drowning or a drowning incident, then we are reactive.
Somebody we know had a situation or we were at a pool party and somebody had, then we become reactive, which then is not fun. It's scary. And you know, that is not a positive learning environment.
So when I, like in my swim program, I use the mats and we have barricade tape. This tape says closed I will wait. It's a... Plastic tape.
So I mean, I close out my pool for the kids. And so whether my kids are neurotypical or not, they understand when they come to lessons, we sit on our mats, we talk about the pool is closed.
And then we open the pool together. You know, they've got these fun all these fun little characters so that they're relatable. But for me, it's about being proactive. These children know where there's water, I will wait. They do it in swim lessons. They have their water safety kits at home.
So then they're practicing it there as well. But children will respond much more positively to the proactive. And like you said, the fun and the You know, where it's not a negative, it's not a punishment. This is something that they want to do because it is it's proactive rather than being reactive.
So in continuing on with the WATCH Initiative, the H is have appropriate flotation devices available. So people always say, well, they're Coast Guard approved. I don't think many people even really know what that means. It's just a phrase that's thrown around.
So I have done a lot of research. To help parents with this.
So in the end, a Coast Guard approved device means that it is approved to be on a boat. That's it. Not swimming around in a pool for hours and hours on end. It doesn't mean that Our children are safe in water. In fact, these life jackets are not even tested on children. They can't put a life jacket on a child and do a clinical test.
So it's about being on a boat, not getting a ticket if the Coast Guard pulls you over. That's what a life jacket is for. Helping parents understand that a type 1 or a type 2 device will roll a child from face down to face up. If they needed that, but a type three device, which is what most people are putting on their children does not have that capability.
So we could spend an hour just talking about life jackets. But, you know, they are appropriate. They are an important strategy for water safety, but they need to be used appropriately. We can't put our children in a device and let them go into a pool on their own while we sit on the side or in a chair on a device and think that they're safe. Because again, what happens when your child forgets that they don't have it on? Or somehow they access water, And they don't have that on. They're still going to go in.
And then they're going to go into this position and then we're going to have a drowning incident.
Len Arcuri | 23:03
Yep. No, it's like a lot of things where a device or a gadget or something can give you a false sense of security and confidence. Again, how you're using it. And all the details matter so much.
Dayna Harvey | 23:19
Yeah. And I'm not against, again, I'm not against flotation devices. I'm a mom of three. I had three under five and two hands.
So, you know, I mean, and this is what I do for a living. I used flotation devices, but it was... Half the time, you know, I have a whole list of things that I would check off to appropriately use a flotation device with our children. I don't want... Parents to think I'm anti this or anti that. I'm very much pro. But I want you to do it appropriately so that our children are building the right message behind water safety. If they're in a pool where they can touch the bottom, no devices. Right. But if they're in deep water and, you know, or at the lake, I mean, that's non-negotiable. That's a life jacket all the time.
So, yeah. It's about creating strategies that parents will be able to use without feeling like, well, right now this isn't fun at all. I want water to be fun. I do. But safe.
Len Arcuri | 24:24
Yep. No, it's so important in terms of execution, right? Because you could listen, you could read a book, listen to this, even listen to this discussion, and that'll give you a false sense of confidence. The key is actually putting it into action, which is what this podcast is all about. Our coaching is all about. It's about helping parents take the actions that are sometimes a little bit inconvenient, time consuming. Other people may look at you crazy, like, why are you taking, you know, why are you so over the top, overly cautious? But again, this is. This is something that is a true, real concern for all kids. And it's just mind boggling how much more so for the kids who are on the spectrum. And again, and I think it's the reason for that is some combination of the fact that They they're just so drawn to it and enjoy being.
I mean, my son was the happiest and is the happiest when he's in water. And even a phenomenal book that I know was turned into a movie, The Reason I Jump. Which I'll put a link into the YouTube audio of it, which I thoroughly enjoyed in there. A 13 year old Japanese boy is talking about what it's like to be. And he was nonverbal and significant autism. And he described water in some way. And I'm probably not getting it exactly right, but how amazing water is because you feel like you're getting a warm hug.
Like it's very, as you said, calming and soothing. And so. Whether it's being in nature Or being in water. It is magical for these kids and they feel very differently.
So, of course, they're going to be drawn to it. All the more reason that if they're drawn to it, the sooner you can help equip them with the awareness of and set your household and your home environment up where you're really minimizing any of the risks associated with access to water.
You know, I guess, yeah. So many great guests lined up and podcast episodes I've already recorded. We're a couple months out. This one I'm going to accelerate because this message really needs to be out there to help parents make better decisions because this is. Thing to take lightly.
Dayna Harvey | 26:37
And, you know, it's so much of it. You know, I don't think parents are making bad decisions. I just don't think that they are armed with the like, they don't know what they don't know. And that's where I've stepped in.
So I just came back from two weeks in Florida. I visited 303 preschools, daycares and special learning centers and not in one in Florida. And not in one single one was there any information about water safety. I went into an ABA school there and they were like, Diana, we've I've been in business 12 years. He goes, nobody has ever stepped across this threshold to talk about swim lessons, nevermind water safety.
So. You know, it's not out there the way that it needs to be. And I'm on a mission to change that. I want to empower parents. I can't make anybody do anything, but I will not sit back and allow parents to say, I didn't know. Now you know and now you can make the decisions best for your family or continue to do more research to make those decisions. B.
So that it is a part of your daily life, not just. You know, Something that you think about when you go to the beach or when you're at a friend's pool. For a birthday party, I want you to think about it consistently before then because it is unfair to ask your child to know how to interact in an environment that they've had no exposure to and no information about. That's absolutely unfair to ask them to act appropriately.
Len Arcuri | 28:09
Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense to me. And, you know, it's convenient to be able to say that you didn't know for certain things, certain topics. But this is just too important. And again, I think once people hear this, you can't now unknow it.
Yeah. Take action, be proactive, excitedly that you're playing defense for your child. Talk to your spouse, Get on board, make it engaging, fun, explain. The one thing I know for sure is these kids on the spectrum, particularly if they're nonverbal, they understand so much more than we think.
So the more you can explain, The more you can show and just really help equip them, Again, this is just time so well spent. Because it's not just a fluke thing. This is a very common, tragic, beyond tragic situation.
So, yeah, Dan, I appreciate the work that you're doing and sharing with our listeners. If people want to find out more about your program and where they can find you, where should they go?
Dayna Harvey | 29:15
They can go right there. Watersafetywithmissdana.com. And you can send me an email. I'm happy to help parents navigate this. It comes to me.
So I will answer your email if you need help finding a swim lesson program or that. If you need help accessing a water safety kit or learn more about it, all of that is there.
Len Arcuri | 29:37
Fantastic. So that's water safety with...
Dayna Harvey | 29:39
With Miss Dana, with a Y.
Len Arcuri | 29:40
With Miss Dana, with a D-A-Y-N-A. At the moment. Yes. Wonderful.
So Dana, thank you so much for sharing this again. I think this is just a very important discussion and appreciate your voice out there to protect these kids. Thank you so.
Dayna Harvey | 29:55
Much. You're welcome. I appreciate the opportunity, Lynn. Thanks again.
Cass Arcuri | 30:00
Want to discover your top autism parenting blind spot? Take our free quiz today. Go to allinparent.com/go.
