Episode 38 — Your Child Understands EVERYTHING
Guest: J.B. Handley • Date: March 11, 2021
Episode Overview
This week’s episode will transform how you see your child.
Len and Cass welcome J.B. Handley, co-author of Underestimated: An Autism Miracle, to share the remarkable story of his son Jamison — a young man once considered “nonverbal” who revealed his deep intelligence and insight through spelling.
J.B. shares how this awakening not only changed his son’s life but completely reframed his understanding of autism, communication, and the role of parents. This episode is both emotional and practical — a powerful reminder that your child understands everything and that the right support can unlock their voice in extraordinary ways.
About J.B. Handley
J.B. Handley is an author, advocate, and co-founder of Generation Rescue, a nonprofit dedicated to supporting families affected by autism. He is the co-author (with his son Jamison) of Underestimated: An Autism Miracle, which documents Jamison’s journey from being labeled “nonverbal” to communicating fluently through Spelling to Communicate (S2C).
J.B. has appeared on major media platforms to share his family’s story, encouraging parents to rethink assumptions and to trust in their children’s unseen potential.
You’ll Discover
The moment J.B. realized his son understood everything. (4:21)
How Spelling to Communicate (S2C) opened a new world of connection. (9:10)
What parents often get wrong about “nonverbal” children. (13:25)
How to reframe progress — it starts with your belief, not their diagnosis. (17:03)
Why calm, consistency, and patience change everything. (23:15)
How J.B. and Jamison’s story is giving hope to families around the world. (30:47)
Referenced in This Episode
Underestimated: An Autism Miracle by J.B. and Jamison Handley
Spelling to Communicate (S2C)
Generation Rescue
Full Transcript
J.B. Handley [00:00:00]:
Hey, pay attention to me. Look right here. You don't need to do that to these children, okay? They don't need that. That's a behavioral mindset. Like, I want you to be just like me. They can be bouncing a ball off the wall, picking their nose, looking around the room, and verbal stimming, and they're listening to 100% of what the teacher is saying. Just leave them alone. Just let them be them.
J.B. Handley [00:00:19]:
They're the most intense observers and listeners in the world. They don't miss a thing.
Len Arcuri [00:00:26]:
How is it possible for a parent of a child with autism to become the superhero their child needs now? I'm Len.
Cass Arcuri [00:00:33]:
And I'm Cass. When our son was diagnosed with moderate to severe autism, we went all in. We spent over a decade learning everything we could on how we could transform to help our son thrive. And guess what? He's doing it. This year, he ran for class president.
Len Arcuri [00:00:50]:
Each week on this podcast, we will be sharing the secrets needed for you to become the superhero your child needs.
Cass Arcuri [00:00:58]:
If you want to learn how to tap into your innate superpowers to help your child thrive, visit autismparentingsecrets.com hello and.
Len Arcuri [00:01:07]:
Welcome to Autism Parenting Secrets. Today's conversation is going to be unlike anything you've heard before. Early on in our journey, Cass and I focused inward on helping our son. But there were other parents out there in a similar situation who chose to focus externally as well, to lead and to take bold action, even unpopular actions. You know, promoting awareness and spurring action to help protect our kids.
J.B. Handley [00:01:30]:
Kids.
Len Arcuri [00:01:30]:
And our guest today is a perfect example of that. For almost two decades, he's taken bold steps to protect children with autism. And J.B. hanley says what he believes to be true and he takes action behind it. Together with his wife Lisa, he founded Generation Rescue, a non profit organization focused on helping children with autism that was inspired by their son's journey. Jameson, or Jamie. He was diagnosed with autism in 2004 and he and his wife also produced the documentary film Autism Yesterday. And he is the best selling author of an outstanding book, how to End the Autism Epidemic.
Len Arcuri [00:02:07]:
That's a book, by the way, that moved Robert F. Kennedy Jr. So much that he purchased a copy for every member of Congress and had them hand delivered. And the exciting news is that there's a new book. JB Is co authored the new book Underestimated An Autism Miracle with his son Jamie that will be released on March 23rd of 2021. So we couldn't be more excited to have JB Hanley join us today on the podcast. Welcome.
J.B. Handley [00:02:35]:
Thank you guys for having me. I'm always thrilled to have the chance to talk to other parents now.
Cass Arcuri [00:02:41]:
We're excited that you're here and so excited to hear about this book that you co wrote with your son. Like, amazing.
J.B. Handley [00:02:50]:
I mean it's. Even to hear you say those words is kind of still surreal for me because it hasn't been that long. So it's a joy and I just can't wait for other parents to kind of hear the story for themselves.
Cass Arcuri [00:03:04]:
And now with your son, he's able now to communicate.
J.B. Handley [00:03:08]:
Yeah, that's probably an appropriate moment to take a step back. Right. And I think the first thing that any parent would want to understand if they're listening and thinking about their own child, which is what we all do, would be to kind of give some frame for Jamie. Okay, so Jamie is 18 years old. He has been a non speaker his whole life. He has words to get sort of extreme needs met. So shower please. You know, I want hot dog.
J.B. Handley [00:03:38]:
Very, very basic, basic needs. So he's able to articulate some words, but that's about it. So he very much qualifies as a non speaker. There's certainly nothing that would resemble conversation. Jamie has what I refer to as mannerisms. And by that I mean that he will stem in various ways. He has some obsessive properties when it comes to like pulling leaves off trees and you know, he'll wave his arms over his head sometimes. And so I think it's fair to say that anybody who sees Jamie is going to know very quickly that he's a special kid.
J.B. Handley [00:04:12]:
Okay. The other thing that was very true of Jamie and he's in an all autism school, a private school here in Portland, Oregon that he goes to every day. His outbursts and self harm related outbursts were rising over time rather than declining and those manifested as stomping that would lead to head hits with open hands or back of the hands. And I think at his peak, which was probably around 16 or 17, we were having one to two a week where every time that happened I would go pick him up. Right. So, you know, pretty harrowing. Obviously anybody who deals with self injury knows how hard that is for everyone, especially for the child. So I just wanted to give like a little bit of background of Jamie because I think that when I tell you the story that I'm about to tell you, most parents aren't going to believe me or they're going to try to find something about Jamie's story that makes him kind of an exception rather than the rule.
J.B. Handley [00:05:12]:
And I totally get that mindset because that was the mindset I had. So I'm just going to quickly tell you the story because there's really no other way to get to it than just to get to it.
Len Arcuri [00:05:20]:
Please do.
J.B. Handley [00:05:21]:
And this is honestly, I mean, I'm going to save people a lot of money. This is basically the book. So I'm just going to tell you the book and then, you know, then you'll know.
Len Arcuri [00:05:28]:
I think they should still go buy the book, though.
J.B. Handley [00:05:31]:
Not a very good marketer, am I? So I'm literally sitting at a basketball practice for my daughter. Yeah. December of 2019, I'm sitting in a gym and I get a text from a wonderful woman named Honey Renicella who lives in Philadelphia. And Honey has twins who have autism. And one of them is a speaker and one is a non speaker, and Vince is the non speaker. And Vince is a child that I've known off and on over the years. And Honey and I have always had a connection because our boys are very similar. Vince and Jamie are quite similar in terms of their disposition and the relative impact of autism.
J.B. Handley [00:06:09]:
And all the things that I just mentioned about Jamie are largely true about Vince as well. And so she sends me this positively absurd text that has this really complex question and answer going on. And I'm like, I'm looking. While the reason I'm looking to the side here is because I'm actually pulling it up in the book because it's so ridiculous, I just want to kind of read what it is that Vince was writing. So she sends me this text, and it's a Q and A. And the things that Vince is answering in the answer part of the Q and A are so ridiculously over the top sophisticated that we're literally. These are like screenshots I have of the day this happened. So he was being taken through these lessons and being asked questions.
J.B. Handley [00:06:56]:
And so the first question is, and this is about Mr. Rogers. Mr. Rogers. What do you think about Mr. Rogers? Open Heart, yet matter of fact delivery. Okay, so that's the question that's posed to Vince, this non speaker with extreme mannerisms, who reminds me of my son. And according to Vince's mom, Vince responds, it is tough to strike such a delicate balance.
J.B. Handley [00:07:18]:
You need to have the message in a clear yet warm delivery. Children are so sensitive words that they must be chosen with all the care in the world. So the analogy I use is like, okay, so Honey would never mess with me. Right? That's not a joke. Right?
Cass Arcuri [00:07:33]:
Yeah. You don't know. Yeah.
J.B. Handley [00:07:35]:
I'll use my analogy in a second then. Here's another one. It's a biography about somebody named Drennan. Who? I don't know. It doesn't matter. But Drennan used her disadvantage to her advantage. What are your thoughts on that mindset? Okay, so that's the question posed once again to Vince. It is the mindset of difference makers.
J.B. Handley [00:07:51]:
Time after time, these people choose to see the opportunity instead of the obstacle. This is alerted point of view. Some have the innate ability but ignore it. It is a shame. Okay. I mean, yeah. Can you imagine sitting there, I'm like sitting on the floor watching my daughter's basketball practice.
Cass Arcuri [00:08:06]:
It's like the emoji with the head exploding.
J.B. Handley [00:08:09]:
Totally, totally. The analogy I used was imagine if you have like a. A really fat, like 50 year old buddy and they send you a picture of them doing like Michael Jordan style dunks, right? And you're like, that's not possible yet. I'm looking at it. Right? That was like. What? It was like. So by the third one that she'd sent me, like that, with that kind of language, I'm just like, what. What the is going on? And so I like, literally, like, I'm at this practice and I pick up the phone and walk into it.
J.B. Handley [00:08:40]:
Luckily there's like a little room off the side of the gym. And I'm like, honey, what is going on? Like, what is going on? She's like, jb, it's the craziest thing know. Three months ago. Three months ago. By the way, Just put that the time in context. You know, we thought the outer boundary of Vince's cognitive ability as well as his verbal ability was I want juice. Okay. And he started doing this method of communication called spelling to communicate where a communication partner holds up an Alphabet board.
J.B. Handley [00:09:12]:
Okay. Very high tech, and it's laminated. And the child literally points at each letter to spell words. And that's what's coming out. And I'm like, you got to be kidding me, right? Like, that's. And so then all I wanted to know was, well, what is there about Vince's history that makes him different? You must have known somewhere that there was something unique because, like, just as we all do, taking it back to our own child. Jamie can't do that. Those thoughts are in him.
J.B. Handley [00:09:46]:
That cognition is not in him. And I was so frustrated about it that honey sends me a video events that night having dinner. And she's having to help him. Like, she's literally holding the video and like cutting his food. And he's got all the same mannerisms he always had. He's looking off in different directions and this and that. Looking like a kid with. I hate to use the word severe because it's really rude, but it's kind of how kids like Vincent Jamie get described, right?
Len Arcuri [00:10:14]:
Yep.
J.B. Handley [00:10:15]:
So I decided to send her a video of Jamie. Right. You know, just to show her, like, look, this kid is impaired. He can't do these things. And then she writes back, oh, my God, he's doing better than Jamie. I know. He's all in there. It's like, you, you know, like, how dare you, like, trigger any kind of feelings of hope out of me.
J.B. Handley [00:10:34]:
How dare you? You know, because I'm obviously like really, really in turmoil emotionally and confused and cognitive dissonance and thing. I can't. And my wife's like, what's going on? And I almost can't even explain it to her because, like, too many competing thoughts and hopes and like, how do I even get started telling her all this? So I sort of absorb it overnight. And, you know, many autism parents will relate to the feeling that we're kind of done with the hope drug. You know, it's just a little too painful to kind of go up and down and, you know, with Jamie at 18, I'd sort of only recently resigned myself to whatever you know, life we were going to have with him and how I was going to care for him and how we were going to just focus on the things that made him joyful that to the best that we could tell. And that was just going to have to be okay. Right. And I just kind of gotten there.
Len Arcuri [00:11:24]:
Right.
J.B. Handley [00:11:24]:
Very uncomfortably and defeatist and. But I didn't really know what else to do. Right. I need to get. I need to get into some kind of frame of mind where I can be okay, you know, And I just kind of gotten there pretty recently. And so it's like, well, I'm not doing this. I'm not like gonna go play this hope drug game and then have this massive hangover on the other side. But I slept on it.
J.B. Handley [00:11:43]:
And I remember even kind of looking at Jamie like in a puzzled way, like, are you kidding me? You know, like, could this. And so I figure out that Spelling to Communicate was started by this woman named Elizabeth Vassar, and she runs the Growing Kids Therapy center in Herndon, Virginia. And so I call them the next morning and it turns out they have this out of town ordeal where you come in for two whole days and do Four whole sessions. And they basically can tell you, like, by the end of that, like, can your kid do this? And here's the basic technique, and you can go off and start doing it yourself. And I'm like, whatever, because I'm in Portland, Oregon, and this place is in Herndon, Virginia. Well, it just turns out that my mom and my dad and my sister live two miles from the center.
Len Arcuri [00:12:23]:
Wow.
Cass Arcuri [00:12:24]:
Oh, my God, I have goosebumps.
J.B. Handley [00:12:25]:
I know. And the truth is, I was a military brat and I don't like Northern Virginia because when I would go back there, it was always hard to reintegrate. So I actually. It's kind of like my kryptonite. And I'm like, here I am going back to this place, you know, And I love my mom and dad, but only in small doses. And so, like, hey, I'm. And it's like two weeks before Christmas. I'm like, guess what? I'm coming to town.
J.B. Handley [00:12:47]:
See you, like, in two days. Because they had, like, some appointment drop. So we go out there, Jamie and I, and stay with my parents and drive to the Growing Kids Therapy Center. And this wonderful mom had kind of reached out to me right in advance to help. Help me understand what's going on. And the first remarkable concept that Growing Kids introduced to me is. Is called the presumption of competence. And what the presumption of competence means is that you assume that every one profoundly autistic, blah, blah, whatever words you want to use, kids, is a completely intelligent, thoroughly there, cognitively present human being.
J.B. Handley [00:13:23]:
And she said, you're going to be surprised. Like, the minute Jamie walks in, they're going to talk to him. You're going to be in the background, and they're going to treat him like he's perfectly normal. And this is what they do. And they presume this from the very beginning. And I thought, well, that's a beautiful thing. Like, why is that bad? Right? So we go and we're in the waiting room, and out comes this woman to greet us. And it's right to Jamie and talking to him completely and telling him what's up.
J.B. Handley [00:13:44]:
And I'm kind of like, hi, I'm Dad. Wait, this is cool. And then this angel appears named Elizabeth Vossler. And she just has, like, an aura of calm energy about her. And she immediately, like, welcomes Jamie into her fold. And she's sort of like, come on, dad, you know, like, whoever you are. And we go cruising into a room, and Elizabeth and Jamie sit down next to each other, and I sit behind them. And I go through this.
J.B. Handley [00:14:09]:
Luckily, I have this on video, so I can do it in the book, like, word for word, right? Because I literally have the whole thing on videotape. And she turns to Jamie and she says, jamie. And I just swallowed some tears because I'm not feeling like being weepy here in the morning. But she says, jamie, I know how smart you are.
Cass Arcuri [00:14:26]:
Yep.
J.B. Handley [00:14:27]:
And as he told me later, no one had ever said that to me before. She says, I know how smart you are, and I know how frustrating it's been. And I'm going to show you a way to be able to show the world how smart you are. And, you know, unlike me, for whatever reason, you're not able to get those words out of your mouth, but I'm going to let you get them out of your hand. And so they embark upon the classic S2C. I'm just going to call it S2C spelling to communicate, the S2C method, where they basically read a lesson. Okay. And the lesson can be on any topic in the world.
J.B. Handley [00:15:05]:
It doesn't actually matter. Abraham Lincoln, the Revolutionary War, the solar system, blah, blah, blah. And this is the advanced letter board. Right. But the first letter board, which I don't happen to have near me, is a stencil of eight Alphabet letters, three separate boards. Right. So it's bigger because they're really just kind of wording the motion. And so they take you through a lesson, and about every paragraph, they stop.
J.B. Handley [00:15:31]:
And for a beginning child like Jamie was at that point, they'll just ask him to spell a word that came across in the lesson. So we'll kind of highlight a word, write it down, and then ask Jamie to spell it. Well, you need to understand that on that morning, I didn't know that Jamie could spell. Okay. Like, that's what I was operating from. If you'd asked me if he could track a lesson that was being read to him, I would say no. Right. That I'd sort of.
J.B. Handley [00:15:55]:
Lisa and I believed that his words reflected his cognition. And so if they improved, then his cognition would be improving. Right. And so much as Honey had said to me, we thought that Vince's out of boundary was, I want juice. I was in a similar boat. It didn't really know how he saw the world. Sure. At times, he seemed to really track exactly what I said and follow along.
J.B. Handley [00:16:19]:
At times, he seemed to get upset if one of us was upset and be very sensitive to the family and what was going on around us. But we really hadn't sort of accepted that it could be much beyond that. And so Jamie, he literally has a stencil and so she like hands him a pencil and so he likes, you know, he spells like this, you know, and he's spelling everything perfectly. And I'm sitting in my chair, like texting furiously with my wife. I'm already crying, right? And I'm like, it's almost like you're not even, it's not even happening. It's like some kind of crazy dream. And you know, after the first session, I'm sort of thinking that this is a litmus test for whether or not Jamie is going to be able to do this. Right.
J.B. Handley [00:16:59]:
She'll tell me or she'll let me down. What I'm only starting to appreciate at that point is that they've never had a kid not do it.
Len Arcuri [00:17:07]:
Wow.
J.B. Handley [00:17:07]:
Okay. And so I asked her the question and it's on videotape. So first I say, well, what do you think? And she says like, she says something to the effect of like from my toes to the top of my head, Jamie will be able to do this no problem. He's way ahead of the game. And I mean that literally sends like a flood of like just like insane emotion through my body of hope and joy. And no, I can't do that. And like I'm like crying and I'm smiling and you know, like, I almost can't even like it's like an out of body moment, right when she says something like that. And I say to her, so have you ever had a kid who has an autism diagnosis who's a non speaker? Come here.
J.B. Handley [00:17:44]:
And you conclude that they are cognitively impaired, right? Like they just literally are. And like they can't do this stuff because they're. And she goes, you know, she's been in business for like four years at this point. She's like, not yet. I'm like, not one. He's like, no. And I'm like, jesus, I've just like ventured over to the other side of the matrix or something like this.
Len Arcuri [00:18:05]:
Yeah.
J.B. Handley [00:18:05]:
You know, and you meet all these other parents in the lobby. Many of them are there for like their 6 month check in and they all have kids who appear like Jamie. And then they all have these insane stories, you know, like I'm talking to this guy from Dallas, Texas, and his kid is presents even more severe than Jamie. He's like, yeah, you know, he's doing calculus now and you know he's going to write a book. And like, what the is happening here? Like, where have these people been My whole life, like, and they all. They all talk, like, well, of course Jamie will get there. It's really weird. It's like this.
J.B. Handley [00:18:37]:
I joke about it in the book. It's like this matter of fact about this thing that, if it were true, would, like, change my life forever and be the greatest thing that ever happened in my entire world. They're like, yeah, so once Jamie gets fluid, then you can start thinking about college. And I'm like. Like, you're saying that so casually, like, it's insane, you know? Like. Like I'm dying over here, right? I'm dying over here trying to figure out how to make the next 40 years work. And you're talking about the imminent nature of his. His time in college, right? Like, it's a real clash of, like, ideology, right? To say the least.
J.B. Handley [00:19:10]:
So on the second day, she's doing a lesson about plants, and she says, jamie, what's the opposite of carnivore? And I'm in the back, and I'm like, excuse me. Excuse me. You didn't talk about that in the lesson, right? Like, I'm like, what are you doing? Like, that's not in the lesson. Maybe. Maybe you missed it. I just want to tell you because I. I'd hate for him to be frustrated by not having the answer, since, of course you didn't read that word. I know.
Cass Arcuri [00:19:39]:
And she's like, back down, dad.
J.B. Handley [00:19:42]:
He's like, it's called prior knowledge. And he. He cranks out herbivore. Like, no, probably like, herbivore juice, right?
Len Arcuri [00:19:52]:
I would. I would be throwing the flag for an inappropriate question so quickly.
J.B. Handley [00:19:57]:
I mean, I'm so protected, right? Yeah. I don't want him to be hurt by being confused. And I'm like, yeah. I mean, you should see the text of my wife. Like, it just fucking wrote her before. It's like, you know, better than, like, your favorite sports team coming from behind in the last second to win the most important event. And you're going. I mean, it was more than that, right? That moment.
J.B. Handley [00:20:21]:
And then later on, like, he's doing some historical lesson, and there's, like, the year 1765 or whatever. It doesn't matter. And she goes, how many years ago was that? And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Number board. He has the answer, like, instantaneously. And she looks at me. She's like, they're all pretty good at math.
Cass Arcuri [00:20:40]:
They're amazing at math.
J.B. Handley [00:20:43]:
So I go away, and we end up going to Hawaii over Christmas, and we're doing these lessons with him every day. And what I'm learning is one of the many sort of changes in frames of reference that's important for parents to try to wrap their head around is like, Jamie doesn't need to be taught to spell. Jamie doesn't need to be taught to think. Jamie doesn't even necessarily need to be taught this information because he already has it all. The only thing he needs to be taught is to myelinate the pathway between what's here and his hand. And the simple analogy I would use with people is, like, if you've never played golf, you just need to sit on the range and swing and swing and swing and swing until you build some muscle memory, which is actually a myelinate of a neuronal pathway. And we all, you know, or like, think of the stroke victim who loses the ability to speak. And then they work, work, work, work, work, work, work, and they regain it.
J.B. Handley [00:21:33]:
Okay? So all Jamie needed to do was keep poking to let what's here come out, you know, onto the board. So we get into January, and we discovered that there's a very advanced teacher named Don Marie Gavin who is based in San Diego, which is a little bit closer to us. And so we schedule, like, a full week with her, like, in January. So now we're in January of 2020, and we go down to see Don Marie. And my. I go first. I take Jamie first. My wife and I are going to trade off, right, because we have other kids.
J.B. Handley [00:22:05]:
Kids. And my dad comes out from Virginia because they've been super intrigued by what happened near their house, and I just want some moral support. So he comes out for the week, too, and we meet Don Don Marie, and she's just like Elizabeth in terms of talks to the kid, treats them like they're normal. What's different about her is she has a fluent letterboarding son. Okay, so now she's one of us, right? She's one of us. And his mannerisms and the way he presents is, as are more challenging than Jamie. And yet he's, like, cranking on this board and has spewed out paragraphs and everything for years. Okay? So I'm like, okay.
J.B. Handley [00:22:39]:
And so she starts working with Jamie. And Jamie's lucky in that he's very regulated in that kind of setting, meaning that he can just sit for a long period of time, which is not required, but certainly helpful. If you're just going to crank on a board, you need to literally, like, physically be able to sit there. And they're going through their lessons. And he's better and better. Right? Because we've had all this time since Elizabeth where we worked with him every day where you can buy lessons at this point. Website called Spellers Learn. And we have, and we've done lessons every day and we've been really diligent.
J.B. Handley [00:23:07]:
So he's gotten way better. And he's like totally motoring and can spell anything you asked him to spell. But there's still a part of me that is like, well, is this just a great parlor trick? Right? Like, okay, so he can spell the words. Like, that's cool. I'm not complaining. But is this just a parlor trick? You know? And to kind of cut to the chase, Don Marie's doing a lesson on the Boston Red Sox, and she's from Boston, and it's a lesson about when they won the World Series for the first time after having not for a long time. And I'm an insufferable New York Yankee fan, so I can't stand this lesson. And I'm kind of like having to wince during the whole thing and roll my eyes and, oh, whatever.
J.B. Handley [00:23:43]:
And, you know, he's spelling to Kobe Ellsberry and Fenway park and everything, like, no problem, you know, and we get to the end of the lesson and my dad's from Scarsdale, New York, you know, he's sitting there like. And we get to the end of the lesson and she's kind of picking up on the vibe, I don't know. But she goes, jamie, what did you think of this lesson? And I'm like, whoa, whoa. High alert, high alert. And I should mention that by this time he had graduated to a 26 letter stencil board, which is one step before this. Because if you think about it, when you're spelling known words and the practitioner knows you're spelling them, you can use three different stencil boards because you kind of anticipate which board you're going to need in front of the kid for the weather they're going to hit. But if you want to spell open, meaning your own thoughts, they all have to be here, Right? You can't have three different boards. Yeah, the practitioner wouldn't know which board to pick up.
J.B. Handley [00:24:40]:
Right. So he's just graduated to this with Don Marie. So when she asks him that question, it's plausible that he's going to give an answer of his own. Right? And so I'm like, holy. She just asked him for his opinion. And Jamie writes, she says, what do you think of the lesson? And Jamie Writes, I mean, I still am mystified. And my father see it. He writes, the Sox won, but the Yankees are champs in my family.
Cass Arcuri [00:25:09]:
Oh, my God. Amazing.
J.B. Handley [00:25:10]:
I mean, I'm just, I'm just. I mean, that was like, oh, yeah. I mean, I, I couldn't even look at my father because he's weepy like I am. And I was like, honey's right. Yeah. He's been there the whole time. He's been there the whole time. And now you have the backstory.
J.B. Handley [00:25:29]:
Now I'm gonna like, fast forward to today, so.
Cass Arcuri [00:25:32]:
And thank you for the backstory. The example that you had said, you know, with a stroke victim, where our son regressed and he lost his words, but then he regained them. But at the same time, where he gained his words, he learned he was spelling, signing, and speaking all at the same time. Because our kids minds, I personally believe, work differently and they have all of this knowledge in them. It is, it's true. It's about finding that pathway in that safe connection so they can get that information out.
J.B. Handley [00:26:05]:
Yeah. You know, I, I probably challenge one little part of what you said, and I, I do so with the benefit of having like, talk with Jamie about this a lot. So when you said our kids minds work differently, I think Jamie would take exception to that comment.
Cass Arcuri [00:26:19]:
Okay.
J.B. Handley [00:26:20]:
He's on the record as saying, we think, feel and learn just like everyone else. You know, I guess at the end of the day, like, I don't know how you think versus me. You know what I mean? Like, we don't.
Cass Arcuri [00:26:29]:
Yeah, no, you're right. So I shouldn't put words, our consciousness.
J.B. Handley [00:26:33]:
Any differently than anyone else. But like, Jamie really bristles at this sort of characterization that he has autism and therefore he thinks a certain way. The analogy would be that I write a book about my philosophy of the world and I'm like, this is how humans think. It's not. It's how I think. Right. So he, he and even like the reason I jump, you know that book?
Len Arcuri [00:26:55]:
Yes, I love that book.
J.B. Handley [00:26:57]:
Inside the mind of a child with autism. No, it's inside one child, that child with autism. You know, and so Jamie doesn't even really. He's not a fan of the word autism. Right. He's, he's like, I'm a non speaker. Like, otherwise I'm just like everybody else. But I just want to read a couple things from Jamie just so you can have.
J.B. Handley [00:27:16]:
I think one of the things that happens when people, they're like, oh, I heard you had a great communication miracle. And I Think they're imagining like Jamie like on an iPad, like doing a great job at pointing at different pictures. Like they're not realizing that like this is a fully literate, fully able to communicate complex thoughts and feelings. And I'll have these conversations with local parents of kids with non speakers and I'll try to explain it to them the way I'm explaining it to you. And they'll be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'll be like, you know what, why don't you just come over? And so they'll come over and my wife and I will tell them the story and then Jamie will come into the room and he'll sit down next to me and we'll start letterboarding and they'll have an out of body experience. Like there'll be huge tears but complete disbelief and then just full engagement with Jamie because he tracks the whole conversation, right. And then they can just ask him a question and then he'll just give them an answer.
J.B. Handley [00:28:08]:
I mean the only difference is the method of communic. But I'm just going to read you some random snippets from the book. So Jamie was having all these outbursts at school. And one of the really interesting things that happens when you have a non speaker who becomes a fluent speller is that any teacher who was ever a jerk to him, like now, you know, right. It's actually, you know, it's a reckoning. And these teachers who are used to being in classrooms with non speakers, if they're not like really good people, you know, like who's going to tell, you know. And it turned out that all those self injury outbursts were driven almost exclusively by one teacher who was very mean spirited. And we learned a lot.
J.B. Handley [00:28:44]:
She's no longer there. We learned a lot more about her. I tell the whole story from my vantage point of like this, you know, I probably just gave you a third of the story, you know, roughly. And then I go interview Jamie as I've reading, I'm reading him the book and interviewing him about it to get his take on the different chapters and his feeling. And so I asked him about the part where I talked about the outburst, a really bad outburst that Jamie had had at school. And Jamie said, I kept thinking how much I hated going to Victory. That's the name of the school and how they treated me like I was stupid. Yes, I was miserable at school and really wanted to go home.
J.B. Handley [00:29:17]:
So you were right because I said it felt like he just wanted to get out of there and he'd be so happy once I picked him up. To have to be treated that way every day not only made me mad, but also made me very mad that you guys kept taking me there. Like, that's the kind of. Oh. I asked him about when Elizabeth Vossler asked him to spell herbivore. And Jamie says, I remember spelling herbivore and how shocked you were. It was a shock to me too, because no one had ever believed in me like that before. Elizabeth surely knew I knew the answer.
J.B. Handley [00:29:45]:
She's an amazing person. I mean, it just goes on and on. And the thing that I guess I want parents to recognize is like, I can get Jamie, do you have a life philosophy? I think my philosophy is to make every day count because I have so much to do. I want to learn about everything in the world. World. What advice would you give a non speaker? I would tell them to try it. They can do it and it will change their life. What has it been like for your extended family to learn how smart you really are? Jamie says, it's been amazing to have everyone know the truth.
J.B. Handley [00:30:17]:
I'm so happy they know. Nice. So, like, this is my daily life. Like, he could come home from school and I could get that sentence or paragraph or more from him in the. The other thing that's happened is like, all that anxiety and frustration is completely gone. There's a. It's so maddening for those of us who maybe spend a lot of time fighting about causation that most ABA trained therapists will reject letter boarding. And so in Jamie's school, when he became fluent and we wanted to bring the letter board into the school to allow him to move from the life skills class to the highest academic class, there was almost a teacher revolt.
J.B. Handley [00:31:04]:
The SLPs and the ABA trained therapists, and these were people who had spent years working with Jamie. And here he was now able to communicate fully and they would not even engage him to witness the letter board for themselves because they'd been warned off it, if you can imagine how that made him feel. Or his dad. Luckily, in our case, the two women who run his school are not that way. And it required them to basically tell everybody to stand down. And Jamie had one teacher who just happened to be in the high academic class who was not an ABA trained therapist who had the courage to say, I will take him. I will take him. And not only that, she was warned by all his previous teachers that he was a behavioral challenge because of all the outbursts he'd been having.
J.B. Handley [00:31:55]:
And so they were kind of like, well, what's your behavioral plan? And you're going to need a behaviorist in there because when you see him lose his shit for the first time in a classroom of otherwise like, pretty regulated and verbal intelligent kids, it's going to be really disruptive. Guess what happened? Nothing.
Cass Arcuri [00:32:12]:
Nothing.
J.B. Handley [00:32:13]:
Because as Don Marie explained to me, he has top down regulation, meaning he's happy. Meaning simply put, he's not going fucking crazy anymore because people are treating him like he's an idiot when he's actually brilliant. Because we'd all be the same way, right? Much as he put you in a straight jacket right now and in a small cell and then waited 36 hours and then how would you be right? So imagine what he was going through. And so, of course, Jamie's perfectly fine and hasn't had a single outburst. And every one of his classmates loves him. And he has a communication partner who he's fluent on the letterboard with so he can have social interaction. And it's gotten to the point where he now has buddies who come over and do workouts after school with him who are speakers because Jamie can speak on the board and they think he's really cool. That's.
Len Arcuri [00:32:55]:
Now that is awesome.
J.B. Handley [00:32:57]:
We discovered relatively early on we were all like in a hotel room in Philadelphia where his brother goes to college. And I was goofing around on the letterboard and I started asking him math questions. And every question I asked him, he would nail instantaneously and I would go to something harder. And it got to the point where we were kind of wigged out. Like, I don't want to ask him anything else. Like, he's already doing five digit, like 55,312 multiplication, right? Like that's like a 12 digit answer. And he does it like instantly. And it was like, okay, I don't know where this is going.
J.B. Handley [00:33:31]:
And we found this amazing teacher here in Portland who actually works with kids on the letter board. So Jamie basically once a week is being tutored in college level calculus and physics. And this amazing teacher who has her own PhD in chemistry and is a brilliant woman, said, he's starting to hit my outer boundary on math. We're probably going to need to pull in like a professor to figure out. You're like, where am I? Like, where was I a year ago and where am I today? I want to explain a couple of other concepts that are really hard for parents. So first of all, my strong personal feeling, backed up largely by my own experiences, is that we've gotten autism, like 100% wrong. And the way I mean that is I no longer believe there's cognitive impairment. I think that autism is a motor planning disability.
J.B. Handley [00:34:26]:
It's a motor disability, fine motor in particular. And so if you're of the mindset that it's an injury, then it's a motor cortex injury. If you're of the mindset that it's a genetic thing, then it's a genetic motor impairment thing, whatever you want to call it. One of the things that seems to be true with almost all these kids is that they have ocular apraxia. What ocular apraxia means. For those who don't know. Don't know. I didn't.
J.B. Handley [00:34:52]:
So that's why I'm going to define it is it's really hard for them to get their eyes to move where they want them to. And so, like, if I take a pencil and I go up, down, side, side. Most of us who speak are to be able to track the pencil without moving our head. Like we're watching a tennis match. No problem, right? We can just do that. Jamie can't do that. He goes away, back away, back away, back. And then you ask him about it.
J.B. Handley [00:35:12]:
He's like, I was trying to do it the whole time. And I saw a bunch of his friends from his school, the non speakers, because we talked those parents into giving this a try. Obviously some of them had extreme ocular apraxia and no one had ever diagnosed it. And so to even look at a letter board, they, like, could barely get their eyes there. How are you supposed to spell if you can't see? And so I think, you know, one of the many ways that these kids are miscast as unintelligent is that they can't get like. Jamie can't read a normal book because the font's too small. He now explained to us. But if I put the font in 20 or higher on a big piece of paper, he speed reads.
J.B. Handley [00:35:46]:
He's totally fine. He needed an accommodation that we didn't know he needed. And as soon as we made it. He's an amazing reader, right? So the first thing is, like, we make all these presumptions that turn out not to be true. Another one is that a lot of these kids who do speak, they speak in motor loops that they don't even want to have. It's like Tourette's with words. And so they'll say the same things over and over again. Or like with Jamie, if you ask Jamie a question, he always answers yes, because it's been drilled into his head.
J.B. Handley [00:36:13]:
And so it's an unreliable motor loop that doesn't mean anything. But the board is reliable. So he could say yes to a question, you know, he could say, like, jamie, do you want me to pour acid on your skin? And he'd go, yes. Not because he means it, but that's just the motor loop he's stuck in, you know? So these loops and these poor kids, like, they're happening, like, despite what they want, right? And then what they'll say is, my body's not my friend, okay? Another thing that they teach you with S2C is never read body language, okay? Never. Hey, pay attention to me. Look right here. You don't need to do that to these children, okay? They don't need that. That's a behavioral mindset.
J.B. Handley [00:36:50]:
Like, I want you to be just like me. They can be bouncing a ball off the wall, picking their nose, looking around the room, and verbal stimming. And they're. They're listening to 100% of what the teacher's saying. Just leave them alone. Just let them be them. They're the most intense observers and listeners in the world. They don't miss a thing.
J.B. Handley [00:37:07]:
Jamie can have his headphones on, listening to music, and then I can reference a conversation my wife and I had. And he knows everything that we said. Like, it's. So this body language thing is huge. And then here's the one that is more recent and has really shocked me. And it's initiation, okay? So we have this remarkable OT who's taught us about initiation. Just. Just picture a really simple experiment, if you will.
J.B. Handley [00:37:32]:
It's more of, like, a process we go through with Jamie, but put, like, three basic objects on a desk in front of Jamie, okay? And then I say to Jamie, jamie, which of these objects are you going to pick up? And Jamie's going to just spell it. He's not going to say, I will pick up the. The iPhone. Okay? So there's like, three objects sitting there. I will pick up the iPhone. And I go, jamie, how much time do you want? And he'll say, two minutes. Okay? Then I just pull the board away. I don't say anything that's really important.
J.B. Handley [00:37:59]:
Then I sit there and wait. And Jamie's just literally sitting there, right? And the first 10 times we did this, the second I would go pick up the iPhone, he would pick it up, right? But before that, he wouldn't. And so then you ask him, what's going on? He said, I'm trying the whole time to pick it up, but I can't okay. They've developed very strong initiation loops off their parents voices. And we prompt them way more than we think. So a verbal prompt for me allows his body to move into action immediately. But when he only said it himself on the board and I didn't repeat it or give him any kind of verbal support, he cannot get his body to do it. Now he.
J.B. Handley [00:38:42]:
What's happened is because we've done this exercise so many times, he's starting to, right? But like I had a parent say to me, well, I don't think so. And so is interested in this communication method because they're really happy and they just seem to like, sit around and like chill in their own world. Like. But I've now learned from Jamie, like there are times when he really wants to do something in the house and he can't. A great example is a friend of mine whose son is now, actually, I mentioned him in the book. His name is Cade Larson. Jen Larson's son. Kate is now fully fluent.
J.B. Handley [00:39:17]:
And Jen jumped on all this stuff early and she was like in a hotel room and she was putting like the room service outside and she got locked out. You know how you kind of do that in the hallway? Cade's in the room. So she starts knocking on the door. He's not coming. She finally gets into the room. Poor Kate is sitting in there and she says, what's going on? And he says, I couldn't move, right. And so this initiation block, which is related to motor, is a big chasm of understanding that leads people down the path of thinking these kids are stupid. Right.
J.B. Handley [00:39:52]:
We apply all these views of them based on our own experiences and our own view of how things should be. And we deduce that they don't understand. I asked him to go to his room, grab a pair of socks and come downstairs. Twenty minutes later, I go upstairs and he's just sitting on the bed. He obviously doesn't understand me. No, he got stuck. He got stuck. He could.
J.B. Handley [00:40:15]:
Of course he knows what you asked him to do. He couldn't get his body to do it. Right. Like that's such a leap of understanding for what's actually going on with these kids. And most mainstream practitioners do not understand that at all. They don't understand this idea of initiation. And the good news is these exercises that we're doing with initiation, we're starting to see initiation all over the house. Jamie would never pick up the board before.
J.B. Handley [00:40:37]:
Like, if he had a need, it would always have to be us starting it. And I'd ask Him like, hey, can you, this was before I really understood. Can you try to pick up the board a little more? Like when you want something, be like, yeah, yeah, I'll try, I'll try. But he couldn't. Now he's starting to because there's some myelination going on, you know, so it like it gets better. So that was like a massive, you know, frame change for me. And so now, now I'm walking through the world, you know, and I guess you can call me like now I'm like such a believer on the other side. But like I really view every non verbal kid is just like Jamie.
J.B. Handley [00:41:07]:
I refuse to believe that any are not exactly like Jamie. I understand that parents will even listen to this and say, well there was something about Jamie that was special that he didn't know that allowed him to do this. And I'll say, well you know, ask Elizabeth Vossler who's got gotten hundreds of these kids out if that's really the case. And it's really liberating for when I interact with Jamie's friends who are non verbal now because like I presume confidence that I treat them normal. I, I, I like to think that I always have. I think we all do. We all like to think that we always have. But it's different when you're certain they understand everything.
J.B. Handley [00:41:42]:
And that's where I am now. I know this kid understands everything. And I'll talk to them like I'll just let them know that I know the way Elizabeth let Jamie know that she knew. Like Jamie has a great buddy named Shane who's still early in the letterboard process. And I'm like Shane man, I know how smart you are. I know you're going to get there. I know you understand every single thing I'm saying. You're totally tracking me, you know, and whatever.
J.B. Handley [00:42:04]:
I just, you know, it's such a, it's so wonderful. And as Elizabeth says, like when you're on your final day, would you rather have over assumed how much they're capable of or under, you know, like would you rather have overestimated like what they're capable of or underestimated when you really think about it and having seen Jamie and now other kids close to me go full cycle, meaning start nonverbal and now be fluent on the boards? Because of course we've tried to get every person we know to give this a try. It's just a really wonderful, liberating, beautiful experience. And then you go, wait a minute, so 40% of kids with autism are non verbal. That's 3 to 5 million souls in this country. There's 1500 letter borders in the entire world. How many kids, adults, are just like Jamie, stewing, wondering, waiting? We asked Jamie, like, how did you survive? Right? Like, how did you stay sane?
Len Arcuri [00:43:09]:
What did he say?
J.B. Handley [00:43:10]:
He said, I always believed that you guys would figure it out.
Len Arcuri [00:43:14]:
Wow. I mean, he had faith.
Cass Arcuri [00:43:18]:
Well, it's. It kind of goes. We just interviewed Dr. Zach Bush for our podcast, and it just was released yesterday. But in it he was basically saying that he believes kids with autism know the souls that they're going into and they have a vision of what will be coming forward. So he kind of knew that you would finally get to where you guys are. You know, he's like, these souls jump into these bodies, and we need autism to teach us. And there are so many.
Cass Arcuri [00:43:45]:
We have stories of our son when he was not speaking, but he'll tell us conversations word for word that we had in front of him when he wasn't speaking. And it was like, you know, he held up that mirror for us to be like, okay, you know what? At least for us, our son was in there. He knew exactly what was going on, and it was up to us to figure out, okay, how can we, you know, pay attention to how we're showing up to support our children?
J.B. Handley [00:44:11]:
I'll just say, I think they're all in there. Yep.
Cass Arcuri [00:44:14]:
Yeah.
J.B. Handley [00:44:14]:
And I. I mean, like, I really believe that. Yeah. I would tell any parent who's doubting what I just said. I just. All I could say to you is, I was you. Okay? So I get it. And I get all the different things that keep you from accepting that part of it is your own frame of reference for how you kind of judge your kid, which I did too, by the number of words coming out of his mouth.
J.B. Handley [00:44:41]:
Well, that's what's representative of cognition. Guess what? That was dead wrong. Like, I was just wrong and you don't want to hope again. And I totally get that. And I'm. I'm just here to tell you I really believe it's every kid. I had a great friend, and I was on a call just like this with him and his ex wife and his son. And he said, well, so, and so he doesn't yet have a base of, like, language he doesn't yet understand.
J.B. Handley [00:45:09]:
Like, and this kid's like 21. He says this whole thing to me, like, kind of rationalizing why this probably won't work for his kid. And I said to my buddy, who I love, I said, that's like the dumbest thing you've ever said in your life. And you just said it in front of your son who understands everything. And they were recording the session because they wanted to be able to go back to it. I said, and you're gonna regret it and you're gonna apologize to him, and I love you, but you're so dead wrong. And I've already gotten the apology from him because his son is way down the path now of spelling, which is wonderful. And I wasn't mad that he said it, you know, I understand, I understand.
J.B. Handley [00:45:46]:
We all make up these stories about our kids limitations partially to stay sane. And I do want to mention it is a very, very emotional thing for a child to go through this process. Jamie had a couple of gigantic outbursts, mostly crying, but I mean, like, that we'd never seen before, right after he became open. And I'd been warned that this was coming. And it's a beautiful thing in a way, because it's a release of grief and it's a relief and it's just overwhelming and it's so many things. And so I would just warn parents that that is real and that there is a reckoning. There is a reckoning. There's a tremendous amount of guilt that we as parents feel about having not figured this out sooner.
J.B. Handley [00:46:24]:
The child understandably has anger and frustration over what's been lost and what was missed. But I want parents to take some comfort in something that I now see, because Tammy's on a. He's on a weekly zoom with like six other boys who all letterboard. And it's a beautiful thing. It's called the Dude Bro social hour. And it's the most surreal and amazing. They just talk like teenagers and it's just so wonderful. And what I've seen from all the.
J.B. Handley [00:46:49]:
They just happen to all be boys. But what I've seen from all these boys is they're very forgiving. They are grace personified, like to an individual because they. I just think that they've had so much time to sit there and observe all of us idiot talking idiots, you know, and they're so smart and they're so grateful that they finally got out that it'll be okay. Like, I want parents to know, like, your kid will forgive you. And you know, I. I can even forgive myself. Like, I was trying my best, you know, with all my limitations as a human being.
J.B. Handley [00:47:30]:
I was just trying my best and I didn't give up. And I did get on a flight to Virginia when I didn't believe. And that's all any one of us can do. They will forgive you for that and they will love you for trying. And there will be many people who will listen to this podcast and they will try and they will get to where I am with Jamie. I don't have any doubt at all. I'm now that person who treats it all cavalierly, right? And then your. Your son or daughter, they will just want to help others like them, because that's what, like, all of them want to do.
J.B. Handley [00:48:00]:
Because they, much as we as parents relate to each other, because we know how we have shared pain that is fully relatable and only relatable amongst ourselves, the non speakers have that bond. And so, you know, I look forward to meeting the parent of the non speaker who heard this podcast and took all the steps. And now they have an advocate on their hands. And more importantly, like, I can't even begin to express to you what this has done to change. I mean, it's obviously changed Jamie's life like, a billion fold, right? Like, there aren't even words to describe what this has done for Jamie. He does want to go to college. We are making plans. Like, literally we're making plans to go to college, okay? But what it's done for my family, for my own personal just, like, state of mind, so I'm not very religious.
J.B. Handley [00:48:56]:
I literally thank God every single night without exception. Okay? Most nights, I still sleep in a bed with my son because we're that close. And we hold hands and I hold his hand and I say, thank you, God. I don't know. Just thank you. Just thank you for this blessing of this beautiful soul that I now know. And I'm going to get weepy again. I'm not going to cry because it's early.
Cass Arcuri [00:49:19]:
I'm weepy. So go.
J.B. Handley [00:49:22]:
I do that every day. Every single evening in this lockdown has been like water off a duck's back. I don't care. Yeah. My other two kids, like, you know, my son plays lacrosse in college. He's at a season taken away twice in a row. And my daughter, we're in Oregon, so, like, we're still, like, shut down and she doesn't even go to school. I don't care.
J.B. Handley [00:49:45]:
Big deal. Like, you know, every time something comes along to bother me a little bit, I think about where we were before and I just go, thank you. Thank you, God. And honestly, like, with this book, you know, like my last book, like, I was really nervous and I knew it was going to be controversial and I was Going to take a lot of heat, this one. I'm like, I'm gonna tell a story. You lead a horse to water. I hope you know you parents who embrace it, you're gonna have my life. You know, I think about Jennifer Larson, who's kind of a known figure in the autism community, who listened to me early on.
J.B. Handley [00:50:19]:
I mean, Jamie and Kater, they have a five o' clock social hour today. And Jen's like, me now. She's like, pinch me, I'm dreaming. Like, every day is a good day in the Larson household, just like it is in the, in the Hanley household. I'll tell you a total aside. Cade Larson, who's in the book, and that's why I feel comfortable talking about him by name. He's now a fluid speller. He's gone full circle in the time that Jamie.
J.B. Handley [00:50:42]:
Because we told Jen to give it a try. Jen runs a company that refurbishes computer servers, okay. That just happens to be her business. And so Kay's in a household where that kind of stuff is talked about, right? Because she runs a business, doing it. So Jen asked Kaden what he wants for Christmas, just this past Christmas, and he says, I want a computer server. She's like, why do you want a computer server? He's like, because I know three programming languages. She's like, how do you know? How do you know a programming language? Well, first of all, they talk about him around the house, right? But he needed more than that. He named the three movies where the three different languages were shown on screen for just a moment, like, I guess on Die Hard and like one of the Die Hard movies, they like, showed the screen and the, like, that's all he needed to extrapolate the, you know, and I, I freaked out when Jen told me this.
J.B. Handley [00:51:33]:
I go cruising home because, you know, you never know with Jamie. I'm like, do you know? And we don't know. I don't know computer programming languages. We don't have a server company. We don't talk about that stuff. I'm like. And I told him the whole Cade story. I'm like, do you know computer languages? He's like, no.
J.B. Handley [00:51:49]:
Oh, thank God. Something like, you know, because he knows Spanish because his brother and sister take Spanish in school, right? And we're always drilling them, like in the kitchen. And so Jamie has like a really work, strong working knowledge of Spanish. Of course he does. He was sitting there listening the whole time, so.
Cass Arcuri [00:52:06]:
Oh, my God, that is amazing. And I love that he is now able to truly externally share his gifts. And so many other non speakers are able to share their gifts because that's what these kids are truly here to do do is to share their gifts.
J.B. Handley [00:52:21]:
They are. I mean, we joke that if you could just put like six of them in a room, they could solve like, all the world's problems. You know, the brilliance, I think, you know, like, Jamie's not of normal intelligence. Right. We feel like we're just sort of like, blessed with being the caretakers of this. I liken it to like when Superman landed on, like, Earth and then the Kents found him. They're just like the caretakers, right? That's how I view Jamie. And we all do.
Len Arcuri [00:52:46]:
To be honest, you feel the same way.
J.B. Handley [00:52:49]:
Not only is he brilliant, but he's. He's like this sage. And so like his siblings, he has an older, new, younger. Like, they'll go to him for the advice. Like, what does Jamie think? Because, like, he's. And I do it. And I feel kind of bad because, like, I think that's called, like, parentification when you seek advice from your child. So I try not to do it too often, but when I have, like, it's always wisdom filled.
J.B. Handley [00:53:09]:
Like, these kids are really, really, really thoughtful. And I don't want to generalize. By the way, I'm doing the thing that I, you know, like on Dude Bro Social. They're all different, but they all do share some qualities of wisdom, thoughtfulness, forgiving, grace. Like Jamie, for example. Like, you know, there are people who'll be like, oh, well, that's just a Ouija board, right? Like, and I get infuriated, right? Like, I'm ready. Let's go. You know, like, it's time to, you know, you want to say that about my son? You know, Jamie's like, they're ignorant.
J.B. Handley [00:53:42]:
Yeah, they're just ignorant. Like, he's way more forgiving than.
Cass Arcuri [00:53:45]:
Oh, yeah. So our son will find the beauty in people. So it will be like, even so I'll. I remember someone. He was like, okay, that person is the most beautiful person. I look at them and for me, they're not. But he's like, look at their just energy and their essence. And I'm like, where is this coming from?
J.B. Handley [00:54:02]:
Our.
Cass Arcuri [00:54:02]:
At least for my son, we. He sees beauty in places that we don't always. At least Glen and I don't always see the beauty.
J.B. Handley [00:54:09]:
I would totally agree. First of all, Jamie loves nature. It's very important to him. And he doesn't have a negative thing to say about anybody. And even in the book where, you know, I talked with you guys just a little bit about, like, that dynamic with the ABA and stuff. Well, I was furious, right? I was furious at the ignorance and the fact that some people even wanted to literally have Jamie removed from the school. It's like, you have to be kidding me. Like, he now can.
J.B. Handley [00:54:38]:
I mean, imagine, right? Imagine.
Cass Arcuri [00:54:41]:
And that empirate.
Len Arcuri [00:54:42]:
If you have a worldview and you're so attached to it, then that's. That's the kind of stuff that happens. The question for them is, what's more important, truly? Do you value compliance more than connection? And that's what they're doing. They're saying, no, you have to comply with this mode, this way of operating.
J.B. Handley [00:54:59]:
Right.
Len Arcuri [00:55:00]:
They lose what's most important.
J.B. Handley [00:55:01]:
Exactly. And so I gave a pretty honest rendition of that in the book, and Jamie made me edit a bunch of it because, like, I didn't name her, but I went after, like, one teacher in particular without naming her. That wasn't okay with Jamie. Said, I want you to take that out, you know? So, I mean, I. I joke, like, our life is, you know, gummy bears and rainbows and unicorns, but it really is. It really is. I mean, the perspective that this has given us on what's important, and I think probably most importantly, just the extreme gratitude that I have for where we are as a family and where Jamie is as a person, it trumps everything in our life, and it. It really keeps it from being stressful.
J.B. Handley [00:55:44]:
It's kind of crazy. And every day I look forward to hearing from Jamie. And, like, here I'll just. This is literally, like, on my phone. Like, I get these, like. So he has a communication partner at school, and they're doing an essay. Like, a persuasive essay. Okay, here we go.
J.B. Handley [00:56:03]:
So this is from his communication partner, literally dated yesterday. Starting the persuasive essay in class today. Jamie is rocking it. Exclamation point, exclamation point. And then she quotes him to use. My letterboard is my method of finding language. My letter board is my only way to communicate. My letterboard is my leak.
J.B. Handley [00:56:20]:
Right. He's this wonderful advocate, and it's just a joy to be his dad.
Len Arcuri [00:56:25]:
Fantastic. I mean, I'm guessing you're not so much for a woo woo person by nature, but, I mean, I'm just looking at you now, I could see that you are vibrating at such a high level, and I'm sure that's the case for your entire family. So it's. It's absolutely a miracle. And we couldn't be more excited for this year and what it's unfolded for you. I mean, it's phenomenal.
J.B. Handley [00:56:45]:
Listen, for parents, if you've listened this long, go to I-asc.org, iask.org and find a practitioner and just try it. I mean, in four hours. In those first four hours with Elizabeth Vossler, like, our entire life was on a different trajectory. And one of the things that I just, like, I joke about, like, I, I did the math, like, how much money did I spend on these lessons? To the point when he said that first thing with Don Marie where he said, like, the Yankees are champs. Yeah. Family. It was like under two grand. Right? Right.
Cass Arcuri [00:57:27]:
I mean, like, right.
J.B. Handley [00:57:29]:
I have an HBOT chamber in my basement and collecting dust. Yeah. And a sauna and a dud and a duh Duh. For under two grand. We got our kid back.
Cass Arcuri [00:57:39]:
Amazing.
Len Arcuri [00:57:40]:
And if I could throw out. On top of what you just said, though, in addition to parents just trying it, if there's a way, if it is something that you think it's something that could be a fit, just don't even try. Just go all in. Just go all in. Be open, be optimistic. It's that mindset going in that actually does fuel success.
J.B. Handley [00:58:00]:
It does. I just started talking to Jamie even more, like normally. And this one mom told me, just start reading them age appropriate material. They get read all this, like children's books. And I just start. And the funniest thing, once Jamie was fluent on the letter board, it was like, so you know Jamie, what are your favorite topics? And he said, math and history. Okay, well, in history, what are you interested in? I really want to learn about the Soviet Union. I'm like, okay, you know, like.
J.B. Handley [00:58:26]:
And so we have all these Soviet Union books and we've been reading them. And my father was a CIA agent for 30 years, so he's got all these rad KGB stories. So he's been sending Jamie books and telling him stories over the phone and this and that. And it's beautiful. So just start reading your kid age appropriate books. And remember, don't read their body language. Just keep filling them with information. And this was a big thing for me at Jamie's school because there's still these non speakers in the classroom.
J.B. Handley [00:58:51]:
And I'm like, to the staff, I'm like, just give them age appropriate content. I know they can't feed it back to you, but just read them like real books. I promise you they're listening, like in the time between now and when they are like Jamie, where they can tell you they are like Jamie. So just give them the damn content. Like, stop reading, like these third grade books to them. Just read them like, you know, go get James Joyce and read them Ulysses and read them like real stuff. I promise you, their mind is dying for it. Yep.
Len Arcuri [00:59:20]:
Yep. Because they truly are taking it all in. I mean, we could talk. We could talk for hours about. So much of what you said resonates with us in our story. But to get to the lessons learned, though we were very fortunate early on. We early on shifted to the Sunrise program. And one of the things that they teach, and Samaria Kaufman especially, that she said early on that stuck with me is that she believed that these children understand everything.
Len Arcuri [00:59:47]:
And when I first heard that, I'm like, yeah, yeah, that sounds. That's nice, you know, nice slogan, but that can't really be true. But, you know, she said it so emphatically, and Cass and I did adopt it, and we applied it with our son. And that absolutely shifted how we were with them. And that's the key thing here, is that, number one, the secret that you're revealing and sharing is that that these children and your son understands everything, which is factually true. And it's your own belief that that's reality that shifts how you show up. And that's what they're going to feed off of. And that's the greatest gift that you can give.
Len Arcuri [01:00:23]:
So surround your child with Elizabeth. Right? Who immediately are like, I know what you're capable of. I'm not. I'm not guessing. I'm not cheering you on. I'm not rooting for you. I know that you're capable. I know you're enough.
Len Arcuri [01:00:37]:
We all now, now let's get to work.
J.B. Handley [01:00:40]:
Right? We all want to be seen for who we are. And these children are denied that. Right. And you can give that back to them as their parent.
Len Arcuri [01:00:47]:
That's right.
J.B. Handley [01:00:48]:
Right.
Cass Arcuri [01:00:48]:
And sometimes you have to earn it. I had to earn it with my son. I had to pass his test. And when I passed it, it was instant connection. But, yeah, there is just. Are you with me? Are you truly with me or are you judging me?
J.B. Handley [01:01:03]:
You should have seen the love in the video in Jamie's eyes for Elizabeth so early on because of the way she treated him. Yeah.
Cass Arcuri [01:01:11]:
And that's where Len was saying, but, you know, that vibration and that energy, I truly, I. My son, you know, he will. When he talks about someone, like, we had the best EC teacher ever last year, and we talks about her it's like, you know, she, she came ranked after. It was what Len, myself and our daughter were all tied. And then it was Ms. Vestle, like, you know.
J.B. Handley [01:01:34]:
Yeah. And I asked Jamie if he and all the non speakers communicated and he said, yeah, it's energetic, but we all know, we all know what's going on.
Cass Arcuri [01:01:45]:
Oh, my God. I'm so, so excited for Jamie. I'm so excited for your family. I'm so excited for you sharing your story and sharing your miracle because that keeping hope alive and knowing that there isn't a window and knowing that there is still so much that parents can do is just transformative.
J.B. Handley [01:02:07]:
Don Marie just got a. An adult with autism. Non speaker fluent. I believe he's 33 or 34. His name's Danny Wy. He now has a. He's doing like YouTube videos. He's learning to talk now, too.
J.B. Handley [01:02:20]:
He's amazing. But literally just at the young age of 34, it's never too late because they're there the whole time. They don't. The window idea needs to be discarded forever.
Cass Arcuri [01:02:33]:
I say throw a brick through it and then just to break it.
J.B. Handley [01:02:37]:
Exactly.
Len Arcuri [01:02:38]:
Yes, it's about hope, but it's also about reality. These kids understand and with curiosity, with love and acceptance, there is so much that's possible and your family's living proof of that. So congratulations again and again, just thank you from the bottom of our hearts for putting this out there and sharing it, because this is the kind of message that people really will benefit from. So again, and thank you for everything you've done over the past couple decades. I don't know if every. Out of all the things that you've done, if there's anything bigger than this message that you're sharing now, so thank you so much, jb.
J.B. Handley [01:03:11]:
Nothing comes even close.
Cass Arcuri [01:03:16]:
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